Are We Getting A New Cannondale Supersix?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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wheelsONfire
Posts: 3412
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

No Hi-Mod with Sram :o :(
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

by Weenie


a20dth
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:28 pm

by a20dth

I'm looking the new generation and value to change my SS Evo Hi-Mod 2017 rim brake to new rim brake no Hi-Mod. But I haven´t got any information about weight of or stiffnes EVO no Hi-Mod 2020.

Are there a big difference in stiffnes and weight, SS EVO Hi-Mod 2017 vs SS EVO 2020 (No Hi-Mod)?

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Dan Gerous
Posts: 1642
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:28 pm

by Dan Gerous

a20dth wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:21 am
I'm looking the new generation and value to change my SS Evo Hi-Mod 2017 rim brake to new rim brake no Hi-Mod. But I haven´t got any information about weight of or stiffnes EVO no Hi-Mod 2020.

Are there a big difference in stiffnes and weight, SS EVO Hi-Mod 2017 vs SS EVO 2020 (No Hi-Mod)?
Stiffness is hard to tell before trying, weight will be higher, someone posted the claimed frame + fork weights of the Evo 2020 non Hi-Mod rim brake frame here earlier...

sgtrobo
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:36 am

by sgtrobo

DaiD wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:28 am
I've gone ahead and bought one of the cheaper versions, the non hi-mod Ultegra disc in black [today's a new bike day :D !]. I'm not expecting great things on the stock weight, but I got a decent discount which I'm going to spend [plus a bit more] on reducing weight. I'll weigh it and post the weight and pictures on here if you guys think it would be useful/interesting?

I went for this model for the price, and also because it didn't have the Knot bar/stem combo! When I saw it totalled nearly 600g I couldn't believe it. So I've got standard bars and stem, which I'll upgrade to a Zipp stem/aerobar combo I've still got from my crashed Felt F1. Tyres going to be swapped onto my Winter bike for GP5000's I've already got. Then I'll be in the realm of spending money to upgrade/lighten:

- Crankset - if I can find an affordable one, Hollogram Spidering, 50-34. Stock one is a pretty solid-looking crankset with FSA rings, 52-36. This could save what, 300g-400g??
- Stack when slammed is exactly the same as my Felt was with headset collar and 10mm spacers, so all those spacers are going
- Saddle - will be weighed and will decide if it's worth upgrading
- Cassette - is a 105 11-32. These are about 320g. May splurge on a Dura-Ace 11-30, around 210g

...so I'm hoping, over the next few months, I can get the weight down by at least half a kilo. That may be enough to bring it under 8kg!!!
you're basically right in line with what I'm thinking, if I go for one and build it up from a frame

zebasto
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:01 pm

by zebasto

As much as I'd like to love this bike and being very easily talked into adding another Cannondale to the collection, there are a few serious things I still simply cannot ignore. As stated before, the handling is decent and reminds me very much of my 2017 Synapse, but the handling of my Evo II Disc and Evo I with rim brakes is just more aggressive and plain flawless. Absolutely no room for improvement there.

And while I'm not that concerned with weight as my SystemSix has taught me to mostly forget about this, I cannot comprehend the specs on some of the models. The ultegra Di2 model for about €7500 with a 105 cassette? Seriously? Even the shop owner was taken aback when we checked and realized the The Force AXS model weighs the exact same as the ultegra (mechanical) version, both landing in 56 at well +8kg including pedals. Given the pricepoint of the Force version at €5500 (and the fact that wireless solves nonexisting problems) this is very hard to accept. Because even if you prioritize aero benefits - get a Systemsix. And the heftly weight of the bar/stem combo suggests that they wanted to avoid any safety issues (that they seemed to have when the bar/stem combo was first supposed to launch on the Synapse a year or two ago) at all costs. Besides, the supersix bar does not work as well for me as the super comfy aero bar on the Systemsix, but that's a different story.

I just cannot see a niche for the new evo between a Systemsix and a very light and nimble Evo I/II. And having seen most paintjobs in real life now, this does not even look fast. Maybe someone can talk me into liking this bike more, seeing and riding it has convinced me that it is a decent bike - replacing and sitting next to truly outstanding ones by the same brand.

S6ED
Posts: 228
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:22 pm

by S6ED

zebasto wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:48 pm
As much as I'd like to love this bike and being very easily talked into adding another Cannondale to the collection, there are a few serious things I still simply cannot ignore. As stated before, the handling is decent and reminds me very much of my 2017 Synapse, but the handling of my Evo II Disc and Evo I with rim brakes is just more aggressive and plain flawless. Absolutely no room for improvement there.

And while I'm not that concerned with weight as my SystemSix has taught me to mostly forget about this, I cannot comprehend the specs on some of the models. The ultegra Di2 model for about €7500 with a 105 cassette? Seriously? Even the shop owner was taken aback when we checked and realized the The Force AXS model weighs the exact same as the ultegra (mechanical) version, both landing in 56 at well +8kg including pedals. Given the pricepoint of the Force version at €5500 (and the fact that wireless solves nonexisting problems) this is very hard to accept. Because even if you prioritize aero benefits - get a Systemsix. And the heftly weight of the bar/stem combo suggests that they wanted to avoid any safety issues (that they seemed to have when the bar/stem combo was first supposed to launch on the Synapse a year or two ago) at all costs. Besides, the supersix bar does not work as well for me as the super comfy aero bar on the Systemsix, but that's a different story.

I just cannot see a niche for the new evo between a Systemsix and a very light and nimble Evo I/II. And having seen most paintjobs in real life now, this does not even look fast. Maybe someone can talk me into liking this bike more, seeing and riding it has convinced me that it is a decent bike - replacing and sitting next to truly outstanding ones by the same brand.
Same here. The only image of the new Evo that makes it look interesting and appealing to me is the famous EF workshop photo, where it does indeed look the part.
Attachments
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Cannondale_SuperSix_Evo-b66fbdf.jpg

DaiD
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:01 pm

by DaiD

Fair enough, totally get those views. I picked it up today, the non Hi-Mod version in 'BBQ Black'. 2 hour drive to pick it up, same back (plus a bit more cos some JCB driving git decided to drive on the main single carriageway into Bath).

Everyone has an opinion, I'm probably riddled with confirmation bias, so I'm going to do the few facts I've gotten today. It's a size 54:

- It weighs 8.23kg
- 544g of that comes from just the seatpost/saddle combo. Seatpost is alloy. Weight is split 50/50 between the two
- The stem is 117g
- The bar is 42cm c2c.
- Including the headset collar where the cables go in, it came with 60mm of spacers
- The cassette is 105, the rotors are not Ultegra
- The cranks are not the ones pictured in the display photos, they are Cannondale SI's, the Si bit displayed on the cranks.

My subjective stuff/confirmatory bollocks/just call it whatever you want:

- It looks minging with all those spacers, but I think will look slick when I slam it
- I've never had a Cannondale. But this is the first bike in 7 years that I got that awesome spark with from the first pedal stroke. I'm comparing that feeling to an Enigma Esprit I had. This feels faster. To me, that's utterly special. It feels so much better than an £8k Wilier Cento10 Air I sold last year after six months. Btw, I didn't pay £8k for it, I paid £3.6k. It was rim brake and 7.1kg.
- The paint is dull as chuff. I like where it's placed but that's it. I might take it to Colourburn Studio in Bristol UK, if it gets on my nerves enough to spend £400+ on a new paintjob. That's unlikely.
- After a 1.12 hour ride this evening, I love it. Feels like the right balance between my Felt F1 (sharp, very flickable, smooth) and a steel racer (riding on polished floorboards, communicative, corners on rails)

Jeez I've written quite a lot. Sorry. I'll summarise my own thoughts - first impressions, I'd buy it again in a heartbeat, but that could be because I've been riding my winter bike for the last three months and been itching to get back out on a nimble road bike. But I genuinely don't think so. Secondly, I've got a journey of lightening up the bugger, which I'm looking forward to. There's some very easy wins - I reckon a kilo could be had off it for around a grand.

Final thing re: the rim brake version- the dealer said the pros are using the non hi-mod frame, and that Cannondale didn't want to make a rim brake version but they had to for them!

Loving this forum btw, I'm quite new to it, but the like-mindedness I dig 😊. Cheers

dastott
Posts: 187
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:35 pm

by dastott

Thanks for the report. Having owned 2 Gen 1 HMs I am still not tempted by the Gen 3, especially after seeing the dull colours in the flesh at a LBS.
DaiD wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:02 pm

Final thing re: the rim brake version- the dealer said the pros are using the non hi-mod frame, and that Cannondale didn't want to make a rim brake version but they had to for them!
I'm sorry, I don't follow. Are you saying that Cannondale haven't made a HM rim brake for EF or they have?

Hexsense
Posts: 1275
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

Really interested in the bike.
However, there is no disc frameset option available yet.

The most budget option at the moment is to buy $2750 disc 105 build.
Then strip down and sell parts. But that's a lot of hassle to handle.

The biggest gripe though, is as reported above, the proprietary seatpost is alloy... add price of replacement carbon seatpost and then it doesn't really worth it.
I should just wait for frameset option.

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Dan Gerous
Posts: 1642
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:28 pm

by Dan Gerous

dastott wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:40 am
Thanks for the report. Having owned 2 Gen 1 HMs I am still not tempted by the Gen 3, especially after seeing the dull colours in the flesh at a LBS.
DaiD wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:02 pm

Final thing re: the rim brake version- the dealer said the pros are using the non hi-mod frame, and that Cannondale didn't want to make a rim brake version but they had to for them!
I'm sorry, I don't follow. Are you saying that Cannondale haven't made a HM rim brake for EF or they have?
He said Cannondale were not going to make a rim brake version at all... but the EF guys insisted so they did make one but only in non Hi-Mod.

DaiD
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:01 pm

by DaiD

Dan Gerous wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:08 am
dastott wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:40 am
Thanks for the report. Having owned 2 Gen 1 HMs I am still not tempted by the Gen 3, especially after seeing the dull colours in the flesh at a LBS.
DaiD wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:02 pm

Final thing re: the rim brake version- the dealer said the pros are using the non hi-mod frame, and that Cannondale didn't want to make a rim brake version but they had to for them!
I'm sorry, I don't follow. Are you saying that Cannondale haven't made a HM rim brake for EF or they have?
He said Cannondale were not going to make a rim brake version at all... but the EF guys insisted so they did make one but only in non Hi-Mod.
Thanks Dan, exactly that

ichobi
Posts: 1128
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:30 pm

by ichobi

Interesting that EF heavily object disc bike.

S6ED
Posts: 228
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:22 pm

by S6ED

ichobi wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:48 am
Interesting that EF heavily object disc bike.
I suppose not EF as a team but some individual riders. People have their preferences and pro riders usually get what they want.

Stueys
Posts: 450
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:12 pm

by Stueys

DaiD wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:02 pm

Jeez I've written quite a lot. Sorry. I'll summarise my own thoughts - first impressions, I'd buy it again in a heartbeat, but that could be because I've been riding my winter bike for the last three months and been itching to get back out on a nimble road bike. But I genuinely don't think so. Secondly, I've got a journey of lightening up the bugger, which I'm looking forward to. There's some very easy wins - I reckon a kilo could be had off it for around a grand.
Keep writing, it’s interesting and I’m tracking the bike ;-) Also like the way you seperate subjective feedback from objective, both are useful but it’s nice to be clear on which is which.

by Weenie


Discodan
Posts: 204
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:55 am

by Discodan

Dan Gerous wrote:
dastott wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:40 am
Thanks for the report. Having owned 2 Gen 1 HMs I am still not tempted by the Gen 3, especially after seeing the dull colours in the flesh at a LBS.
DaiD wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:02 pm

Final thing re: the rim brake version- the dealer said the pros are using the non hi-mod frame, and that Cannondale didn't want to make a rim brake version but they had to for them!
I'm sorry, I don't follow. Are you saying that Cannondale haven't made a HM rim brake for EF or they have?
He said Cannondale were not going to make a rim brake version at all... but the EF guys insisted so they did make one but only in non Hi-Mod.
It seems odd that if they only made it because a pro team wanted it, that they then made it in low-mod. Does not make sense


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