New Shiv TT on Spec Site now

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
bespoke
Posts: 283
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:58 pm

by bespoke

I am going to come across as a real Spez fan boi, but I have met the R&D guys there and the engineers and they are all super smart and geeks. And they have 24/7 access to their own wind tunnel. This TT bike is such a low volume seller for them, I dont see why they would make up claims - it will soon be very apparent in prologues and ITTs. The best riders in the world will be on these, you cant fake a lemon
Now ironically the new roubaix (which has been well received) is such a big seller for them they would be under real pressure to present good data (even if the bike was not so good). And the classic roubaix rider (no offence) could not really tell difference
This bike - not the case, and they were really under not much pressure to introduce it
Its all a bit depressing really; they come out with a new bike and immediately the armchair experts are all over them claiming they are pulling a fast one
Warning - Inherently biased:
www.bespokecycling.com

by Weenie


hambini
Posts: 510
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:13 am
Location: Cologne, Germany

by hambini

blehargh wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:13 pm
hambini wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:50 pm
AW84 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:54 am
I just love bicycle marketing.

Forget all the time trial bike stigmas. Deep, skinny airfoils, massive seat tube cutouts, heavy frames, and sketchy handling—the Shiv TT makes them all relics of the past. Light, responsive, agile, and still every bit as aero as the original gold-medal-winning Shiv. This is the New Shape of Speed.

When those bikes with the deep, skinny airfoils and massive seat tube cutouts came out, they told us the wind tunnel proved they were the superior design. I guess the wind tunnel was in fact in error those days. Or....maybe they just need to sell some new bikes. :D
A quick google leads me to a comparison between a thin, deep aerofoil (NACA 0012) and a fatter aerofoil (NACA 0024). In every test I found, the thinner and deeper aerofoil had about 40% less drag across the board.

Now call me a cynic but I think Specialized are pulling a fast one.
I assume they would’ve tested the deeper airfoil against the final shape. Beyond weight savings, and if you do think the deeper foil is more aero - why do you think they ended up with the final shape from an engineering perspective?
Because they need to sell more bikes and if it looks too similar to last years model - they won't.
Hambini Aeronautical Engineer, Polluting YouTube since 2016 - views expressed are my own...
Add me ON TWITTER!
Aerodynamic Masterclass in bicycle wheels
I fixed the bottom bracket from hell

spdntrxi
Posts: 3261
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

hambini wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:00 pm

Because they need to sell more bikes and if it looks too similar to last years model - they won't.

while I agree with that in general, I do think that area is no biggie. the change to disc brake alone is enough change to sell this bike.

User avatar
miltmaster3
Posts: 673
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:29 pm
Location: patra greece

by miltmaster3

hambini wrote:
blehargh wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:13 pm
hambini wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:50 pm
AW84 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:54 am
I just love bicycle marketing.

Forget all the time trial bike stigmas. Deep, skinny airfoils, massive seat tube cutouts, heavy frames, and sketchy handling—the Shiv TT makes them all relics of the past. Light, responsive, agile, and still every bit as aero as the original gold-medal-winning Shiv. This is the New Shape of Speed.

When those bikes with the deep, skinny airfoils and massive seat tube cutouts came out, they told us the wind tunnel proved they were the superior design. I guess the wind tunnel was in fact in error those days. Or....maybe they just need to sell some new bikes. :D
A quick google leads me to a comparison between a thin, deep aerofoil (NACA 0012) and a fatter aerofoil (NACA 0024). In every test I found, the thinner and deeper aerofoil had about 40% less drag across the board.

Now call me a cynic but I think Specialized are pulling a fast one.
I assume they would’ve tested the deeper airfoil against the final shape. Beyond weight savings, and if you do think the deeper foil is more aero - why do you think they ended up with the final shape from an engineering perspective?
Because they need to sell more bikes and if it looks too similar to last years model - they won't.
Correct words


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
πατα τραβα ρε

bespoke
Posts: 283
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:58 pm

by bespoke

They don’t need to sell more Shiv TT bikes; this whole excercise will likely cost them money; they will not recoup their investment
All the money is in gravel/all-road now
This project was likely a labour of love by a very small group of aero geeks and will make 0.0005% difference to Spez annual revenue
Warning - Inherently biased:
www.bespokecycling.com

hambini
Posts: 510
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:13 am
Location: Cologne, Germany

by hambini

bespoke wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:47 pm
They don’t need to sell more Shiv TT bikes; this whole excercise will likely cost them money; they will not recoup their investment
All the money is in gravel/all-road now
This project was likely a labour of love by a very small group of aero geeks and will make 0.0005% difference to Spez annual revenue
I think the marketing men/women have done a good job on you...
Hambini Aeronautical Engineer, Polluting YouTube since 2016 - views expressed are my own...
Add me ON TWITTER!
Aerodynamic Masterclass in bicycle wheels
I fixed the bottom bracket from hell

bespoke
Posts: 283
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:58 pm

by bespoke

Or I am capable of independent thought, and not automatically preset to stir up faux controversy?
Warning - Inherently biased:
www.bespokecycling.com

User avatar
kgt
Posts: 7926
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Location: Athens, Greece

by kgt

hambini wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:48 pm
bespoke wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:47 pm
They don’t need to sell more Shiv TT bikes; this whole excercise will likely cost them money; they will not recoup their investment
All the money is in gravel/all-road now
This project was likely a labour of love by a very small group of aero geeks and will make 0.0005% difference to Spez annual revenue
I think the marketing men/women have done a good job on you...
lol
True

hambini
Posts: 510
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:13 am
Location: Cologne, Germany

by hambini

bespoke wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:14 pm
Or I am capable of independent thought, and not automatically preset to stir up faux controversy?
My engineering is based on hard fact. A NACA 0024 vs NACA 0012 is a comparison between slender and thick aerofoils. There is no contest, the thin aerofoil is more aerodynamic.

I am not an armchair expert but there are large areas of unconstrained airflow on that frame. That will make it less than optimal.
Hambini Aeronautical Engineer, Polluting YouTube since 2016 - views expressed are my own...
Add me ON TWITTER!
Aerodynamic Masterclass in bicycle wheels
I fixed the bottom bracket from hell

User avatar
rainerhq
Posts: 841
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Estonia

by rainerhq

But the 160mm front rotor just kills it. And in every roadbike too.
Domane
Speed Concept
"Nothing compares to the simple pleasure of a bike ride"

MRM
Posts: 373
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:15 pm

by MRM

This shape is a derivative of the triathlon model. They did not develop this to purely have the fastest bike in UCI legal TT's. Makes complete sense from a business perspective. Doubt the triathlon market is smaller than the market for UCI legal TT's.

Optically I like the triathlon model (mainly due to the incredible paint job; especially in person). Also I appreciate the "different-ness" of the shape. This one looks like a trimmed version and looks "like something is missing".

Marketing claims are just that: marketing. No point in taking them as a personal slight. :wink:

User avatar
Miller
Posts: 1650
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:54 pm
Location: Reading, UK

by Miller

rainerhq wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:00 pm
But the 160mm front rotor just kills it. And in every roadbike too.
That is utter nonsense. Sorry for being rude but it's true. No-one is going to be slower because their bike has disc brakes no matter how much you want to believe that.

ParisCarbon
Posts: 1406
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Winnipeg Canada

by ParisCarbon

Both the old a new version are equally fast... the old version stood for how many years... the new version has been proven to be equally fast (OK yes its the rider as well, but the new one is not going to be slower than the old one, technology has advanced over the past how many years since the prev version)

Id do one in a frameset if I got a new one... I definately would not go with the off the shelf version.. I like my 54T ring and an 11-23 block for my terrain... Unfortunately would be stuck with Di2 though since theres no Campy in a hydro EPS TT brake lever...

I gotta agree, I don't think the Shiv TT is a big money maker... don't know what its like in other parts of the world, but where I am, there are no TTs on the schedule all year except for provincials.. there were 2 team time trials that were more or less fun events, and everyone was on road bikes.. I do my own TT every week, so I get use out of my TT bike..

User avatar
rainerhq
Posts: 841
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Estonia

by rainerhq

Miller wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:39 pm
rainerhq wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:00 pm
But the 160mm front rotor just kills it. And in every roadbike too.
That is utter nonsense. Sorry for being rude but it's true. No-one is going to be slower because their bike has disc brakes no matter how much you want to believe that.
Completely misunderstood me. I mean why 160mm? 140mm will be enough. I have all my 4 bikes fitted with 140mm rotors. OK, my TT bike has rim brakes, but its 7 years old.
Domane
Speed Concept
"Nothing compares to the simple pleasure of a bike ride"

by Weenie


User avatar
Miller
Posts: 1650
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:54 pm
Location: Reading, UK

by Miller

Sorry, I did misunderstand your point.

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post