Cannondale TOPSTONE 2019 is released

Especially for light weight issues concerning cyclocross / touring bikes & parts.

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frogtape777
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:35 pm

by frogtape777

yinzerniner wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:41 pm
Discodan wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:17 pm
My understanding is:
- It’s a standard hub width, no special hub required, with the wheel dished 6mm to the left
- If you have more than 6mm tyre clearance, such as dropping in a road wheel set, you can then just put in an alternate wheel set and ride as was mentioned, but your wheel will be 6mm to the right of centre
- if the two contact points naturally align with the direction of travel, ie the rear contact point falls in behind the front contact point, the bike will then be at a slight angle. By my year 10 maths it will be at 0.34 degrees off straight, so small it would be impossible to notice


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Your understanding is correct, but missing one key point - the rear wheel will need to have 12mm smaller tire than what's originally specified for max clearance since you're losing the 6mm of space with the improperl dished wheel.

In other words, if you take a 700c rear wheel from a Diverge to use on the Topstone, then the max tire you'll be able to fit is a 30mm since it's rated for a 42mm wide tire. Kind of defeats the whole purpose of the bike if the tire clearance ends up being roughly the same as a Supersix Disc.

This is what i'd primarily be doing installing a road wheel, so looks all good on that front, and as said 0.34 would be impossible to notice in reality.

But since yesterday and my WTB formula hub wheel has died already (apparently known to have issues these hubs?!) i'm now going to get something like these

https://www.dtswiss.com/en/products/whe ... -dicut-25/

and refit my WTB nano 40mm.

In the above scenario with a 40mm Nano are we saying the Carbon Stone won't clear the tyre?

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

frogtape777 wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:36 am

In the above scenario with a 40mm Nano are we saying the Carbon Stone won't clear the tyre?

It will fit as long as you dish the wheel specifically to the Topstone’s 6mm offset. If you don’t, it will be equivalent to running a 52mm tire.

by Weenie


tomh79
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:50 pm

by tomh79

frogtape777 wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:55 pm

Cross Road 1600 with Dicut lovely! What tyres are you running? and did you notice much benefit over stock wheels when riding?
Panaracer Gravelking SK 35mm. For me perfect combination, fast rolling on solid ground..good on gravel. Wheels: def. lighter! which is good..but no new strava records :D I got them for a good price (400 EUR) - if not, I would have bought those: https://www.dtswiss.com/en/products/whe ... spline-23/

Really love the 22mm width inside - the new Gravel line by DT SWISS (24mm inside) is too wide - I still want to be able to run 28/30mm tires.

frogtape777
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:35 pm

by frogtape777

tomh79 wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:43 pm
frogtape777 wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:55 pm

Cross Road 1600 with Dicut lovely! What tyres are you running? and did you notice much benefit over stock wheels when riding?
Panaracer Gravelking SK 35mm. For me perfect combination, fast rolling on solid ground..good on gravel. Wheels: def. lighter! which is good..but no new strava records :D I got them for a good price (400 EUR) - if not, I would have bought those: https://www.dtswiss.com/en/products/whe ... spline-23/

Really love the 22mm width inside - the new Gravel line by DT SWISS (24mm inside) is too wide - I still want to be able to run 28/30mm tires.
Thanks! I wanted opinion on the new gravel range as they look good, and would be more aero as closer to tyre width? But theres so much range on DT Swiss site it becomes a mine field of choice. :D

I'll add gravelking SK 35 to my potential new tyre list too.



PS. I think you went well with the Dicut VS Spline. From reddit :

"Spline has some tradeoffs compared to DiCut.

Steel bearings instead of ceramics

Less aero hub

Mix of two sorts of spokes instead of just one

Considering how ludicrously expensive high quality ceramic bearings are, that's probably where most of the difference in pricing lies."

tomh79
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:50 pm

by tomh79

I really like the look of the Dicut rim, looks like it's alien technology :) It really depends on personal irm width preferences. For me I think..22mm is perfect. For somebody always running 38mm + tires...24 would be better. If I would not have found the CR1600 DICUT for 400 EUR, I probably would have bought the HUNT 4 Season Gravel wheelset (19mm internal, about 1600g and only around 370 EUR I think...). Tires: for me, it was between G-Ones and Gravelkings (that's what was available in the local store...). I bet the G-Ones are great as well...

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TonyM
Posts: 3268
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:11 pm

by TonyM

frogtape777 wrote:

From reddit :

"Spline has some tradeoffs compared to DiCut.

Steel bearings instead of ceramics

Less aero hub

Mix of two sorts of spokes instead of just one

Considering how ludicrously expensive high quality ceramic bearings are, that's probably where most of the difference in pricing lies."
Reddit is wrong.

The SINC ceramic bearings are not included in all Dicut wheels but only in the 1100 range.


frogtape777
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:35 pm

by frogtape777

TonyM wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:53 pm
frogtape777 wrote:

From reddit :

"Spline has some tradeoffs compared to DiCut.

Steel bearings instead of ceramics

Less aero hub

Mix of two sorts of spokes instead of just one

Considering how ludicrously expensive high quality ceramic bearings are, that's probably where most of the difference in pricing lies."
Reddit is wrong.

The SINC ceramic bearings are not included in all Dicut wheels but only in the 1100 range.
Thanks useful info!

frogtape777
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:35 pm

by frogtape777

tomh79 wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:17 am
I really like the look of the Dicut rim, looks like it's alien technology :) It really depends on personal irm width preferences. For me I think..22mm is perfect. For somebody always running 38mm + tires...24 would be better. If I would not have found the CR1600 DICUT for 400 EUR, I probably would have bought the HUNT 4 Season Gravel wheelset (19mm internal, about 1600g and only around 370 EUR I think...). Tires: for me, it was between G-Ones and Gravelkings (that's what was available in the local store...). I bet the G-Ones are great as well...
Narrowed down to these two on DTSwiss, will be 40mm mainly, possibly 35mm is I try the gravelkings

22mm vs 24mm inner
1682 vs 1727 g

https://www.dtswiss.com/en/products/whe ... -dicut-25/

https://www.dtswiss.com/en/products/whe ... spline-25/

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TonyM
Posts: 3268
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:11 pm

by TonyM

frogtape777 wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:25 pm
tomh79 wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:17 am
I really like the look of the Dicut rim, looks like it's alien technology :) It really depends on personal irm width preferences. For me I think..22mm is perfect. For somebody always running 38mm + tires...24 would be better. If I would not have found the CR1600 DICUT for 400 EUR, I probably would have bought the HUNT 4 Season Gravel wheelset (19mm internal, about 1600g and only around 370 EUR I think...). Tires: for me, it was between G-Ones and Gravelkings (that's what was available in the local store...). I bet the G-Ones are great as well...
Narrowed down to these two on DTSwiss, will be 40mm mainly, possibly 35mm is I try the gravelkings

22mm vs 24mm inner
1682 vs 1727 g

https://www.dtswiss.com/en/products/whe ... -dicut-25/

https://www.dtswiss.com/en/products/whe ... spline-25/
And here you can see the difference between the Dicut and the Spline hubs in the way the spokes are attached ;-)

Excellent wheels! and both can be upgraded to the 36T ratchet.

For 38-40mm tires I would personally take the GR 1600 with their 24mm inner width rims.

frogtape777
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:35 pm

by frogtape777

TonyM wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:40 pm
frogtape777 wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:25 pm
tomh79 wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:17 am
I really like the look of the Dicut rim, looks like it's alien technology :) It really depends on personal irm width preferences. For me I think..22mm is perfect. For somebody always running 38mm + tires...24 would be better. If I would not have found the CR1600 DICUT for 400 EUR, I probably would have bought the HUNT 4 Season Gravel wheelset (19mm internal, about 1600g and only around 370 EUR I think...). Tires: for me, it was between G-Ones and Gravelkings (that's what was available in the local store...). I bet the G-Ones are great as well...
Narrowed down to these two on DTSwiss, will be 40mm mainly, possibly 35mm is I try the gravelkings

22mm vs 24mm inner
1682 vs 1727 g

https://www.dtswiss.com/en/products/whe ... -dicut-25/

https://www.dtswiss.com/en/products/whe ... spline-25/
And here you can see the difference between the Dicut and the Spline hubs in the way the spokes are attached ;-)

Excellent wheels! and both can be upgraded to the 36T ratchet.

For 38-40mm tires I would personally take the GR 1600 with their 24mm inner width rims.

Only 129 g / 0.3lbs difference in them, so may swing towards gravel for the width.

On the DT swiss site it shows the higher T ratchets as being more maintenance, do they wear out quicker? Whats the main benefits, angry wasp sound (which i love from my Hopes) and faster engagement?

It does look a super easy process on the video to switch.

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TonyM
Posts: 3268
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by TonyM

frogtape777 wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:57 am

Only 129 g / 0.3lbs difference in them, so may swing towards gravel for the width.

On the DT swiss site it shows the higher T ratchets as being more maintenance, do they wear out quicker? Whats the main benefits, angry wasp sound (which i love from my Hopes) and faster engagement?

It does look a super easy process on the video to switch.
I would also go for the wider rims if you want more confort as the tire will be wider.

36T vs. 18T is a big improvement!
Easy and cheap to upgrade. Buy the 36T and the Dt Swiss special grease (you will need it for the upgrade and for the maintenance of the ratchet. No other tool are required. No servicing needed from the LBS)
No more maintenance or wear than the 18T.
Benefits are better and faster engagement (and the sound is more like a "higher" tone) (I like your description of the angry wrasp sound!)

It seems however that the 54T is sometimes wearing faster depending on the use (MTB, strong/ heavy rider for example).

frogtape777
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:35 pm

by frogtape777

TonyM wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:16 pm
frogtape777 wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:57 am

Only 129 g / 0.3lbs difference in them, so may swing towards gravel for the width.

On the DT swiss site it shows the higher T ratchets as being more maintenance, do they wear out quicker? Whats the main benefits, angry wasp sound (which i love from my Hopes) and faster engagement?

It does look a super easy process on the video to switch.
I would also go for the wider rims if you want more confort as the tire will be wider.

36T vs. 18T is a big improvement!
Easy and cheap to upgrade. Buy the 36T and the Dt Swiss special grease (you will need it for the upgrade and for the maintenance of the ratchet. No other tool are required. No servicing needed from the LBS)
No more maintenance or wear than the 18T.
Benefits are better and faster engagement (and the sound is more like a "higher" tone) (I like your description of the angry wrasp sound!)

It seems however that the 54T is sometimes wearing faster depending on the use (MTB, strong/ heavy rider for example).
Thanks for the reply Tony, this is how I like my hubs, loud and angry, and waspish! I wonder why they don't ship 36T as standard!

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/adam-bray ... -2016.html


Only thing I don't have is a vice to pop the end of hub off, which the guide video shows, could I use my park tools stand clamp as a vice? :lol: 8)


Will a 36T upgrade also work for my road wheelset the PerformanceRace 1600 Dicuts?





(Warning Topstone with Gp5000 uber light roadwheel set content glory ahead)






:shock:















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Calnago
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by Calnago

@Frogtape777... where do you live? I hate the wasps beehive sound. Tried the 36tooth star ratchets in my girlfriend’s bike hoping for more of a subtle Campy sound but all we got was a hive of bees. PM me with your location if you like.
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frogtape777
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:35 pm

by frogtape777

Calnago wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:34 pm
@Frogtape777... where do you live? I hate the wasps beehive sound. Tried the 36tooth star ratchets in my girlfriend’s bike hoping for more of a subtle Campy sound but all we got was a hive of bees. PM me with your location if you like.

I've pm'd you Calnago, and hive of bees *drools* :oops: :D :D

by Weenie


DJT21
Posts: 318
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:35 pm

by DJT21

36T star ratchets are a pointless upgrade for road riding.

You can pull the end of the hub off with your hands.

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