Frame size, new bike fitting, questions

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
win32
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:01 am

by win32

Hi to all! :)

I'm between sizes for Bainchi Aria and now I need advice what one is better choice.
My hight is 178 cm, my inseam is 82-83 cm.
My old bike was Specialized Allez in size 56" and it was relative ok with 80 mm stem.
I was try Specialized Allez from 2014 in size 54" ant that one was ok.

Now I want to buy Aria but I'm stuck between sizes. I'm little streched on 55". Aria have 2 cm offset on seatpost and with default it have 110 mm stem. Maybe if there is no offset and if I take 90-100 mm stem all that will be better? Did I need to be more streched on Aria than on Specialized Allez? Aero position is great for me and I'm just worried for that streched position with that offset and 110 mm stem.

From some of yours experience, take shorter 90-100 mm stem and try to fix that or to take smaller bike?
Smaller, 53" Arioa have 170 mm crank and I don't know is that ok for my inseam and hight (I never ride with 170 mm)?

Here is basic info abou Specialized Allez Race in 54" and that one was ok:

Reach: 387 mm
Stack: 547 mm
Top tube lenght: 548 mm
Seat tube lenght (BB to top): 500 mm
Head tube lenght: 145 mm
Stand over height: 798 mm
Head tube angle: 73°
Seat tube angle: 73,5°

Here is info basic info of Aria in size 55":

Reach: 390 mm
Stack: 541 mm
Top tube lenght: 550 mm - B1 on picture (or 541 - BS on picture)
Seat tube lenght (BB to top): 520 mm (AS on picture)
Head tube lenght: 140 mm
Stand over height: no info
Head tube angle: 72,5°
Seat tube angle: 73,5°

Aria in 53":

Reach: 385 mm
Stack: 525 mm
Top tube lenght: 535 mm - B1 on picture, or 528 mm - BS on picture)
Seat tube lenght (BB to top): 500 mm (AS on picture)
Head tube lenght: 125 mm
Stand over height: no info
Head tube angle: 72°
Seat tube angle: 74°

And here you can see detailed geometry of Specialized Allez in 56":

http://imgur.com/hr8fAJy

Complete Aria geometry:

Complete Aria geometry:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1099/ ... 1557791726

Thanks for all your help because I really need it (there is no any kind of fitters around me or in any close town, maybe only in another country like Slovenia).

by Weenie


alanyu
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:10 pm

by alanyu

win32 wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:25 pm
Hi to all! :)

I'm between sizes for Bainchi Aria and now I need advice what one is better choice.
My hight is 178 cm, my inseam is 82-83 cm.
My old bike was Specialized Allez in size 56" and it was relative ok with 80 mm stem.
I was try Specialized Allez from 2014 in size 54" ant that one was ok.

Now I want to buy Aria but I'm stuck between sizes. I'm little streched on 55". Aria have 2 cm offset on seatpost and with default it have 110 mm stem. Maybe if there is no offset and if I take 90-100 mm stem all that will be better? Did I need to be more streched on Aria than on Specialized Allez? Aero position is great for me and I'm just worried for that streched position with that offset and 110 mm stem.

From some of yours experience, take shorter 90-100 mm stem and try to fix that or to take smaller bike?
Smaller, 53" Arioa have 170 mm crank and I don't know is that ok for my inseam and hight (I never ride with 170 mm)?
What's the seatpost offset of your Allez? As the seatpost angle is similar (73.5 for 55" and 74 for 53" Aria while 73.5 for 56" Allez), if you can replicate both relative x and y position of your saddle to BB, that's fine and then look for a suitable stem. 55" Aria and 56" Allez has a similar reach (390 vs 395).

The biggest problem of Aria is the stack. How many spacers do you use on your 56" Allez? The stack of 55" Aria is 33mm lower than 56" Allez which means around 3.5 more spacers are needed to replicate the height of your bar (35 * sin72.5 = 33), assuming that the stack of headset top is the same. Meanwhile, effective reach is also reduced by 35 * cos72.5 = 10. Then you can use a 90~100mm stem. Or you can take the angle of stem into consideration to make it more accurate.

The question: is the steerer long enough for the spacers? If not, you have to stay in a more (maybe much more) aero position, which could make you feel more stretched and then switch to a shorter stem. Size 53" can make this problem even worse, as almost no one prefers to be a spacerman on an aerobike.

It's hard to talk about 170 or 172.5 crank. It depands on people, including inseam, strength, riding style...

win32
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:01 am

by win32

alanyu wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:09 pm
What's the seatpost offset of your Allez? As the seatpost angle is similar (73.5 for 55" and 74 for 53" Aria while 73.5 for 56" Allez), if you can replicate both relative x and y position of your saddle to BB, that's fine and then look for a suitable stem. 55" Aria and 56" Allez has a similar reach (390 vs 395).

The biggest problem of Aria is the stack. How many spacers do you use on your 56" Allez? The stack of 55" Aria is 33mm lower than 56" Allez which means around 3.5 more spacers are needed to replicate the height of your bar (35 * sin72.5 = 33), assuming that the stack of headset top is the same. Meanwhile, effective reach is also reduced by 35 * cos72.5 = 10. Then you can use a 90~100mm stem. Or you can take the angle of stem into consideration to make it more accurate.

The question: is the steerer long enough for the spacers? If not, you have to stay in a more (maybe much more) aero position, which could make you feel more stretched and then switch to a shorter stem. Size 53" can make this problem even worse, as almost no one prefers to be a spacerman on an aerobike.

It's hard to talk about 170 or 172.5 crank. It depands on people, including inseam, strength, riding style...
Thanks alanyu on this info.
Unfortunately I don't own that Allez any more and I'm buying Aria because I want that Aero position.

Here you can see some pictures on my old Allez with 80 mm stem:

https://imgur.com/7yNiOjC
https://imgur.com/uN5OZp9
https://imgur.com/Ez5zzfL
https://imgur.com/JFsLG6u

There is no offset on Allez but my saddle Specialized Power was pulled back on rails, it was not in the middle of rails.

With Aria I want to be in lower, aero position because I never like too much that upright position on Allez.

I don't want to have too big bike and be strached more than I need to be strached on bike but I don't have anything against aero, lower position on Aria....I really like that Aria aero position.
I think that angle between hands and body when I'm on hoods of Aria in 55" is more than 90° but that's with 110 mm stem.
Maybe 100 mm stem will be better solution if you think that 55" is better choice than 53".

From this pictures and from geometry, can you (or anyone here) can see what size will be better on Aria, 53" or 55".

Thanks one more time on all advices and help!

alanyu
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:10 pm

by alanyu

win32 wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:12 pm

Thanks alanyu on this info.
Unfortunately I don't own that Allez any more and I'm buying Aria because I want that Aero position.

Here you can see some pictures on my old Allez with 80 mm stem:

https://imgur.com/7yNiOjC
https://imgur.com/uN5OZp9
https://imgur.com/Ez5zzfL
https://imgur.com/JFsLG6u

There is no offset on Allez but my saddle Specialized Power was pulled back on rails, it was not in the middle of rails.

With Aria I want to be in lower, aero position because I never like too much that upright position on Allez.

I don't want to have too big bike and be strached more than I need to be strached on bike but I don't have anything against aero, lower position on Aria....I really like that Aria aero position.
I think that angle between hands and body when I'm on hoods of Aria in 55" is more than 90° but that's with 110 mm stem.
Maybe 100 mm stem will be better solution if you think that 55" is better choice than 53".

From this pictures and from geometry, can you (or anyone here) can see what size will be better on Aria, 53" or 55".

Thanks one more time on all advices and help!


I see your Allez setup is endurance.

As there are 2/3 spacers now, you can just put them above the stem and have a try. That's much closer to a aero position of a 55" Aria with 3 spacers and a 90~100mm stem. If you feel pain or uncomfortable after the long distance you usually ride, you should choose a 55" Aria. Otherwise, if you can still hold on drops for a long time, you may have a 55" STS (don't jump to that) or even 53". It depends on your core muscles now.

Personally I think 53" is too aggresive for non-pros at your height and inseam.

win32
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:01 am

by win32

alanyu wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:44 pm

I see your Allez setup is endurance.

As there are 2/3 spacers now, you can just put them above the stem and have a try. That's much closer to a aero position of a 55" Aria with 3 spacers and a 90~100mm stem. If you feel pain or uncomfortable after the long distance you usually ride, you should choose a 55" Aria. Otherwise, if you can still hold on drops for a long time, you may have a 55" STS (don't jump to that) or even 53". It depends on your core muscles now.

Personally I think 53" is too aggresive for non-pros at your height and inseam.
Problem is I was sold Allez and now I'm without any bike. :(
I never get used to that Allez setup, it was too upright position and 90% of time (or even more) I was on drops. I don't know why but I feel much more confortable riding that Allez on drops than on hoods.
That's main reason why I'm looking now Aria. It's relative cheap bike and it's aero. I don't know why I don't like endurance geometry and why I feel more confortable on drops and in lower position.
Store is keeping me booth sizes, 53 and 55. Is normal on aero bike to have more than 90° angle between hands and body?
On Allez, that angle was around 90° but on 55" Aria that angle is bigger.

alanyu
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:10 pm

by alanyu

win32 wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:52 am
alanyu wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:44 pm

I see your Allez setup is endurance.

As there are 2/3 spacers now, you can just put them above the stem and have a try. That's much closer to a aero position of a 55" Aria with 3 spacers and a 90~100mm stem. If you feel pain or uncomfortable after the long distance you usually ride, you should choose a 55" Aria. Otherwise, if you can still hold on drops for a long time, you may have a 55" STS (don't jump to that) or even 53". It depends on your core muscles now.

Personally I think 53" is too aggresive for non-pros at your height and inseam.
Problem is I was sold Allez and now I'm without any bike. :(
I never get used to that Allez setup, it was too upright position and 90% of time (or even more) I was on drops. I don't know why but I feel much more confortable riding that Allez on drops than on hoods.
That's main reason why I'm looking now Aria. It's relative cheap bike and it's aero. I don't know why I don't like endurance geometry and why I feel more confortable on drops and in lower position.
Store is keeping me booth sizes, 53 and 55. Is normal on aero bike to have more than 90° angle between hands and body?
On Allez, that angle was around 90° but on 55" Aria that angle is bigger.
The hands - body angle of course can be larger than 90°, not too much. Usually upper arm - body angle is around 90° for a racing setup. One aggressive setup is like (the fig shows a very aggressive setup of the pro): upper arm - body: 95~100, elbow: 165~170, body - horizon: 35~40.

Actually this kind of setup does Not depands on whether you choose an aero frame or a normal frame, it depands on people. One with good strength and flexibility can use that aggressive setup on both by using a long stem or reducing spacers.
1.PNG

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silvalis
Posts: 652
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 1:02 am
Location: Aus

by silvalis

Get the 55 Aria. For your height an inseam a 53 is too small and definitely too low. Ignore the seatpost setback since you say your saddle was pushed back.
Chasse patate

win32
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:01 am

by win32

In my case, that angle between upper body and arm is at around 95° with stock 110 mm stem.
I'm prepared to pay extra money for another, 100 mm stem. I think that 100 mm will be ok, 90 mm is maybe too short.
Store is keeping me booth sizes eg 53" and 55" and I will try this time even this 53" but from all your advices and from all "googling", 55" is better choice.
My mistake is because I was not try that 53" when I was at store for a first time but 53" was looking really small.
It's bad thing for Bianchi because they don't have any kind of size guide. Plenty other brands like Specialized, Giant etc. have size guide and that's great for orientation.
Bianchi have only geometry chart and for all new riders that's not best option.
Maybe I can't find any Bianchi size guide for Aria or Oltre?
Thanks one more time, I'm going tomorrow to buy Aria and I'm 99% sure in Aria in size 55" with 100 mm stem.

Edit: :(

Blah, today I was at store and now I'm at home without bike.
Why? 55" Aria is feels big, I can sompensate reach with 1 cm shorter stem but bike is big.
On 53, when I dial saddle at 744 mm, drop from saddle to handlebar is too big + I need longer cranks (170 mm is really not for me) + I need wider handlebar. I can pay all that but I can't fix that huge drop from saddle to handlebar.
When saddle is lower, than all is ok but with saddle at 744 mm everything goes wrong.
People at store told me that Aria is bike when all weight is on your hands and that huge drop is normal? I don't think so.

Now I'm looking used bikes.

First one is this Specialized Roubaix Comp 2017 in size 54 (again, problem is with Specialized and because they was changing sizes and now 54 is to max 175 cm and I"m 178cm) :

https://www.specialized.com/br/en/roubaix-comp/p/115635

Here is confusing reach 375 and stack 585.
My old, little too big Allez in 56 have reach 395 and stack 574 when 54 Allez have reach 387 and stack 574.

From that, this Roubaix is looking like bike with very small reach in all sizes and with large stack? I never see anything like that on road bikes!
Did someone of you try to ride that Roubaix and what is feeling? That's somekinn of mega endurance model?
It look (from numbers) that I will seating on that Roubaix like on some MTB.

Another one is Scott Foil Team Issue (size M, from all that's my size):

https://www.thebikelist.co.uk/2014/scot ... team-issue

I'm looking for some more bikes. That Specialized is ok but that geometry is really strange and maybe 54 is too small for my 178 cm height.

coleofcali
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:39 pm

by coleofcali

I am planning a new bike purchase in the distant future. Wondering how the collective wisdom of WW would address my fit issues.

Current bike/fit
According to a recent retul fit performed on my Giant TCR size M/L:
Handlebar stack: 650mm
Handlebar reach: 500mm
Saddle height: 80cm
Saddle setback: 11.3mm
Cranks: 172.5
Shimano SPD-SL pedals
S-works 6 shoes
Stem: 120mm +6 with 15mm of headset/spacers

Wondering if it's better to go up a frame size to a 58 or even a 60 in order to avoid having a stack of spacers to get the right stack. I also think I could maybe come up 5-10mm in stack and maybe go 5mm max further reach. For example, I could fit a size 60cm Madone SLR...but that's 2 full frame sizes larger than what I'm at and it seems a bit ridiculous to ride a frame that large. I'm only 183cm tall so it's not like I'm built like an Ent. Cervelo S3 also has a huge stack in 58 that could work well. But all of these would necessitate a 110mm stem which might mess with steering right?

Am I off in looking at frames as big as a 60 just to only have a negative rise stem and minimal spacers even if it means a short stem? Am I just built weird and as flexible as peanut brittle?

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silvalis
Posts: 652
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 1:02 am
Location: Aus

by silvalis

I'd do the 58 Madone SLR and adjust spacers to suit. 30mm spacers is fine and will raise you up a bit. A 60 would probably just feel too large, even though you could set it up with similar reach/stack.
A 110mm stem is fine on that Cervelo 58cm. It's definitely not outside design parameters and you'd get used to it anyway.
Chasse patate

User avatar
silvalis
Posts: 652
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 1:02 am
Location: Aus

by silvalis

Have you bought anything yet?
win32 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:14 am

It's bad thing for Bianchi because they don't have any kind of size guide. Plenty other brands like Specialized, Giant etc. have size guide and that's great for orientation.
Bianchi have only geometry chart and for all new riders that's not best option.
Maybe I can't find any Bianchi size guide for Aria or Oltre?
Thanks one more time, I'm going tomorrow to buy Aria and I'm 99% sure in Aria in size 55" with 100 mm stem.
I personally think that online size guides according to your height aren't useful at all. I'd go with what the shop thinks.
win32 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:14 am
Edit: :(

Blah, today I was at store and now I'm at home without bike.
Why? 55" Aria is feels big, I can sompensate reach with 1 cm shorter stem but bike is big.
On 53, when I dial saddle at 744 mm, drop from saddle to handlebar is too big + I need longer cranks (170 mm is really not for me) + I need wider handlebar. I can pay all that but I can't fix that huge drop from saddle to handlebar.
When saddle is lower, than all is ok but with saddle at 744 mm everything goes wrong.
People at store told me that Aria is bike when all weight is on your hands and that huge drop is normal? I don't think so.
As you mentioned, you can't fix the huge drop, hence I'd go the 55.
Chasse patate

win32
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:01 am

by win32

silvalis wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:52 am
Have you bought anything yet?
win32 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:14 am

It's bad thing for Bianchi because they don't have any kind of size guide. Plenty other brands like Specialized, Giant etc. have size guide and that's great for orientation.
Bianchi have only geometry chart and for all new riders that's not best option.
Maybe I can't find any Bianchi size guide for Aria or Oltre?
Thanks one more time, I'm going tomorrow to buy Aria and I'm 99% sure in Aria in size 55" with 100 mm stem.
I personally think that online size guides according to your height aren't useful at all. I'd go with what the shop thinks.
win32 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:14 am
Edit: :(

Blah, today I was at store and now I'm at home without bike.
Why? 55" Aria is feels big, I can sompensate reach with 1 cm shorter stem but bike is big.
On 53, when I dial saddle at 744 mm, drop from saddle to handlebar is too big + I need longer cranks (170 mm is really not for me) + I need wider handlebar. I can pay all that but I can't fix that huge drop from saddle to handlebar.
When saddle is lower, than all is ok but with saddle at 744 mm everything goes wrong.
People at store told me that Aria is bike when all weight is on your hands and that huge drop is normal? I don't think so.
As you mentioned, you can't fix the huge drop, hence I'd go the 55.
People at store really don't know anything about all that.
From their opinion I'm for Aria in size 53 and they told me that is normal to have all that weight of complete body on my hands and it's normal to have that huge drop from saddle to handlebar.

Now I have two choices.

One is used (mint condition, owner is sailor and he is not riding bike) Canyon Aeroad CF SLX Disc 2016 in size S.
I was put my measures at Canyon web and from their side I'm for S. Even when I put 1 cm larger numbers I'm for S.

Another option is used Cannondale SuperSix Evo Ultegra Di2 2017 (owner is around 70 years and he was ride that bike only first year and bike have around 200 km of rides....really new condition).

I was look geometry of Canyon Aeroad CF SLX and in size S is just in the middle 55 and 53 of Bianchi Aria.

Here you can see comparison:

https://geometrygeeks.bike/compare/cany ... o-2016-54/

Canyon have better wheels, nice frame...Cannondale have Di2.

At Geometry geeks is wrong model of Cannondale, I want to buy Cannondale from same year but without discs and with complete Di2 and mechanical Ultegra brakes.

From geometry, will that Aeroad S be better for me than Bianchi?
Size S with that reach, stack and long top tube... :)

Owner of Canyon is at home for two days and I can than buy it or I can buy Cannondale.

Problem is, I can go to try Cannondale and Canyon because one is around 600 km from my home and one is around 800 km from my home. :)

Will that drop be smaller on Canyon S than on Aria 53?

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silvalis
Posts: 652
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 1:02 am
Location: Aus

by silvalis

Ignore "size S". The canyon small is the same size as the 55 aria with a lower stack, not in the middle. Supersixes have a higher stack so if you slam all of them they will be higher.

What you need to look at is how much steerer tube do the second hand bikes have, and how much do you need to put the bars where you want. And if it's fine, just buy whichever one looks the best
Chasse patate

win32
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:01 am

by win32

silvalis wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:54 am
Ignore "size S". The canyon small is the same size as the 55 aria with a lower stack, not in the middle. Supersixes have a higher stack so if you slam all of them they will be higher.

What you need to look at is how much steerer tube do the second hand bikes have, and how much do you need to put the bars where you want. And if it's fine, just buy whichever one looks the best
Than drop on Canyon is not that big like on Aria 53?
For me, Canyon is nice bike and if drop is not like drop on Bianchi 53, I will buy it.
Can you somehow see that numbers, is drop the same (my saddle on old bike was at 774 mm).
I'm asking you about the drop because you was the only one who was tell me about that problem on 53 Aria.

Thanks for all help! Maybe I will finally buy new bike! :)

Here is picture of that Aeroad (plenty of spacers under stem):

http://imgur.com/8Pgtzq2

And here you can see Cannondale (I can't download picture):

http://www.bolha.com/rekreacija-sport/k ... 29073.html

Cannondale is selling with default Mavic wheels, not this one on picture.

by Weenie


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silvalis
Posts: 652
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 1:02 am
Location: Aus

by silvalis

Should be higher than the Aria 53cm, unless the Aria was brand new and came like all new bianchis - with 50mm of spacers.

Just keep in mind - if you take a few spacers off the 55 Aria, it's pretty much the same geometry as that Canyon
Chasse patate

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