Shimano restricting online UK sales to the US & Canada.

Questions about bike hire abroad and everything light bike related. No off-topic chat please

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TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

robertbb wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:35 am

I loved the comment that was made above: companies going out of their way to manufacture in countries with cheap labour, yet doing their best to block consumers trying to cross regional boundaries in search of their own cost savings. Poor behaviour, and I won't be buying from said companies. As consumers the most powerful vote we have is with our wallets. Sadly, most people are dumb.

I blame the industry for making geoblocking an unfortunate necessity. I really don't think it's fair to tell the local bike shop that it has to adapt or die when there's really no decent adaptation that can be made other than adding non-retail services like serving food/beverages or becoming a very high-end boutique so you don't have to make your money off sales volume. Physical shops are a crucial asset for the industry, so maybe they should stop treating them like dirt.

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guyc
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by guyc

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:11 am
robertbb wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:35 am

I loved the comment that was made above: companies going out of their way to manufacture in countries with cheap labour, yet doing their best to block consumers trying to cross regional boundaries in search of their own cost savings. Poor behaviour, and I won't be buying from said companies. As consumers the most powerful vote we have is with our wallets. Sadly, most people are dumb.

I blame the industry for making geoblocking an unfortunate necessity. I really don't think it's fair to tell the local bike shop that it has to adapt or die when there's really no decent adaptation that can be made other than adding non-retail services like serving food/beverages or becoming a very high-end boutique so you don't have to make your money off sales volume. Physical shops are a crucial asset for the industry, so maybe they should stop treating them like dirt.
This.

As an aside, some of the LBS attitudes are piss-poor. I was in mine the other day. Driving past so popped in - I rarely visit on my bike now because they don't let you take your bike in (and it's plenty spacious enough inside to allow it), but instead provide a lock to leave your pride and joy outside (so I need to remember to take off my Garmin, saddle bag and water bottle off). Surprisingly enough I'm not keen on leaving a £10k C64 on the street.

Anyway, I'm just having a browse. Staff member wanders over (I'm looking at some Cannondales) and asks what I ride. I reply C64. He tells me that 'Giant make their stuff anyway and a TCR is a better bike so I should have bought that instead'. Even if that was the case, that sort of attitude just left me speechless. So, that's a LBS that has just driven another customer to an online option where I don't have to listen to that crap.

I *want* to have a LBS that I can use. But some of them make it really hard to like them.

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ms6073
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by ms6073

guyc wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:06 am
rarely visit on my bike now because they don't let you take your bike in (and it's plenty spacious enough inside to allow it)
:shock: While I can understand not wanting wet/muddy bikes inside, have you discussed that with the owner? Wonder if the ower leaves his bike outside?
asks what I ride. I reply C64. He tells me that 'Giant make their stuff and a TCR is a better bike
Although Giant owns an interest in and does make many of the tubes/moldings/assemblies for Colnago, that employee needs to find a new store to work at and again you should talk to the owner.
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guyc
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by guyc

I have indeed.

‘If everyone wanted to bring their bikes in we wouldn’t have room’

I was the only customer that time.

They also have a coffee bar at the back so assume they want people to hang around.

robertbb
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by robertbb

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:11 am
robertbb wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:35 am

I loved the comment that was made above: companies going out of their way to manufacture in countries with cheap labour, yet doing their best to block consumers trying to cross regional boundaries in search of their own cost savings. Poor behaviour, and I won't be buying from said companies. As consumers the most powerful vote we have is with our wallets. Sadly, most people are dumb.

I blame the industry for making geoblocking an unfortunate necessity. I really don't think it's fair to tell the local bike shop that it has to adapt or die when there's really no decent adaptation that can be made other than adding non-retail services like serving food/beverages or becoming a very high-end boutique so you don't have to make your money off sales volume. Physical shops are a crucial asset for the industry, so maybe they should stop treating them like dirt.
Umm, adapt or die is a normal state of affairs on planet Earth. That holds true both biologically and in the economic framework humans have constructed. It always will hold true.

Artificial protections are just that... artificial. It is up to the manufacturer to decide if this is what they want to do, and likewise it is up to the consumer to decide if this is what they'll accept. On a discretionary spend (if you're on this forum, your bicycle is a discretionary spend) this is as it should be.

I maintain the smartest possible thing Campagnolo could do now would be to build a direct-to-consumer model. This is no longer viewed as "cheapening" a brand as it perhaps once was, and would actually make their products more accessible.

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TonyM
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by TonyM

robertbb wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:40 am
....
I maintain the smartest possible thing Campagnolo could do now would be to build a direct-to-consumer model. This is no longer viewed as "cheapening" a brand as it perhaps once was, and would actually make their products more accessible.

But then they would loose the support of all these LBS with high-end/ exlusive bikes (i.e. Colnago/ Bianchi/ Pinarello etc..) that they often have with Campagnolo.
Especially in North America the "Italian bike" (Italian frame with Campagnolo) is a prestige bike.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

I liken the LBS to the loyal dog whose owner (the suppliers) turned from caring to abusive. Now the dog is locked in a cage and starved. Adapt or die I guess.

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Noctiluxx
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by Noctiluxx

Berzin1 wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:00 pm
ultimobici wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:53 am
What most of you are missing is that the “corporations” you are slating are not making any more money by restricting inter regional sales. Far from it. They are protecting small businesses, the LBS, from the likes of PBK, Wiggle & Ribble. These companies sell product so cheap that no LBS can compete leading to fewer & fewer outlets that actually invest in brands & support consumers.

The majority of consumers are not the type who post on here & other boards. They do not necessarily have the nous to buy the right parts for a job, let alone put it all together. As more and more regular LBSs disappear due to insane pricing online the sport dies.

The whole notion of capitalism flies against the very notion of protectionist policies on the retail side for the benefit of a stagnant business model. Part of the fault lays squarely on the shoulders of distributors for giving larger retailers better pricing, allowing them to offer better pricing to their customers.

Brick and mortar stores need to change their business practices if they want to stay in business. No one owes owners of bike shops a living, and it's not up to the rest of the industry to ensure their survival if their business model is not self-sufficient.

The sport is never going to die as long as people enjoy riding. What needs to be put in order is more realistic price points for all retailers, instead of restricting sales country to country and offering better deals to larger retailers.

ultimobici wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:53 am
It’s now gotten to the point where the price for some parts has been normalised to such a low level it isn’t worth stocking at all as no amount of added customer service can make up for the pricing difference.
You are being overly dramatic. Price margins are the biggest secret in the industry, worse than any omerta practiced by cyclists who dope, and it's like that for a reason. And the expenses, at least on the higher end where most of us swim, are egregious and are set in conjunction with whatever the industry deems "competetive pricing".

Anyone have an idea what bike shops get their Pinarello F10's for or any other type of frame/equipment? The profit margins would make for interesting reading.
The markup for my 2019 Trek Madone SLR frame is about 40%. I know this as the dealer forgot the invoice in the box :lol:
2018 Bianchi Oltre XR4, (Celeste Matt)
2018 De Rosa SK Pininfarina (Blu)
2019 Trek Madone SLR (Rage Red)
2019 Giant TCR Advanced SL (Chameleon Blue)
2019 Cervelo R5 Disk (Team Sunweb)
2019 Giant Revolt Advanced 0

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

Noctiluxx wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:58 am

The markup for my 2019 Trek Madone SLR frame is about 40%. I know this as the dealer forgot the invoice in the box :lol:

Yep, and that's a larger percentage margin than a Trek FX.

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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Noctiluxx wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:58 am

The markup for my 2019 Trek Madone SLR frame is about 40%. I know this as the dealer forgot the invoice in the box :lol:

Yep, and that's a larger percentage margin than a Trek FX.
Doubtful.


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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

Comparing margin on whole bikes to frames is pointless. The manufacturer is in full control of costs on one but not the other.

Direct to consumer seems like a good idea, but what happens when you need spares or just a chain? Carriage free from Vicenza to the US will not happen, ever.

I get the impression that many here think retailers are screwing them over on price. I get that everyone wants to get a good deal, but it seems that a good deal means cost to many here. Too often I have encountered this at the point of sale, lost the sale to an online seller and then had the same consumer ask me for warranty back up. It isn’t isolated in the slightest.

I don’t work for a small LBS. I work as a buyer for a bike manufacturer & retailer. So I get the lowest prices on pretty much everything. But i still see brand new product heavily discounted almost as soon as it is launched. 10-15% I can understand, but 30% or more is insane. How someone in a small independent retailer can compete with that even if they add value is beyond me.


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RTW
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by RTW

guyc wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:06 am

Anyway, I'm just having a browse. Staff member wanders over (I'm looking at some Cannondales) and asks what I ride. I reply C64. He tells me that 'Giant make their stuff anyway and a TCR is a better bike so I should have bought that instead'. Even if that was the case, that sort of attitude just left me speechless. So, that's a LBS that has just driven another customer to an online option where I don't have to listen to that crap.

I *want* to have a LBS that I can use. But some of them make it really hard to like them.
You get this a lot. The scathing comments about other brands, even if you owned them. I used to experience this with my Canyons. I know Canyon. I know lots of people there, the owner, the engineers etc. I know their Taiwanese partners. You get the picture. Yet I would be told by shop staff that they were 'cheap open mould chinese frames' made from 'inferior carbon'. It is utter untruths. But I don't understand if they think at any point in being told this, you would go "Really, ah okay. What do you have here to sell me which is better". OR that you would go back to that shop in the future having been rediculed by them.

Can you PM me which LBS this was? I want to know if our product is there.

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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

There are ways to promote your own brand without denigrating a customer’s current ride. Unfortunately some salespeople don’t have the ability to do it.


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RTW
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by RTW

"Sales People"

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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

RTW wrote:"Sales People"
??


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