Silca Superpista Digital pump review.

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
MrMagura
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:38 pm

by MrMagura

You're perfectly correct.
There's zero difference, well, counting out the fact that a simple armed rubber hose, is much faster and more comfortable to work with.
......and they also come in fancy colors. The one I just mounted instead of the Silca formula 1 brake hose, is a nice blue :-D

mattr
Posts: 4636
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: The Grim North.

by mattr

coresare wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 8:10 pm
I'm no engineer, but wouldn't a cheap hose that expanded with pressure
You'd have to buy a *really* shitty hose to have that happen to any significant (or even measureable) level.

by Weenie


RocketRacing
Posts: 778
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 am

by RocketRacing

coresare wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 8:10 pm
I'm no engineer, but wouldn't a cheap hose that expanded with pressure and Silca's super hose have no effect on accuracy? The cheap hose might take an insignificant more pumping since the hose will create more volume, but I don't see how that will make the pump more accurate.
I agree, it should not. It is all about the state of your tire/valve, and the accuracy of your gauge.

So why the f1 level hose? Have a look at silcas “shield” warranty for “ultimate” level products (and that is why i think it would be CrAZY to self modify the pump). Run over it with your car and they will replace it. The hose was likely chosen because they want it to last for 25 years. It is 110% overbuilt for a reason. And i am sure that hose is not cheap. Motorsport grade brake hoses that mortals like us can buy cost more than the silca pump. I should know, i used to race cars. Not cheap! (Stock car is cheaper, but i raced sports car$$$).

The practical cost of that “overbuilt” hose might be less flex. But a hose with more flex will not last 25 years before the rubber dries out, and hardens.

So i think the materials choice was deliberate. They want a pump that will survive the nuclear holocaust with the cockroaches. But just like bomb shelters being cold and hard, that comes with the territory if you want to survive an a-bomb.

Imho. Hahaha
Last edited by RocketRacing on Fri May 10, 2019 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mattr
Posts: 4636
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: The Grim North.

by mattr

A) It's probably 1100% overbuilt.
B) Most suitably sized industrial grade hoses should last 25 years at the sort of duty a track pump is doing, even pumping up 30x2 sets of tyres a day. The hose on my silca pump was still working perfectly the day that it went in the skip. Except for where it'd been sliced by tools, had stuff dropped on it, sprayed on it, scraped off it and been generally abused. That was already ~15 years old, and a cheap piece of hydraulic hose. A "motorsport spec" hose would have looked pretty much the same after 15 years as well.

I'm currently lining up parts to upgrade my renn. Industrial spec 63mm 14bar fluid filled gauge, 15 quid, tap to modify the base to take it 5 quid, hirame chuck, 55 quid (if they ever get stock again). That'll work as well, if not better than anything else on the market, and will only have cost me about 120 quid total. (And an hour to do the mods.)
The hose (8 quid to replace) will not be on the list of "essential upgrades". Because it isn't needed. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

MrMagura
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:38 pm

by MrMagura

RocketRacing wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 8:35 pm
coresare wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 8:10 pm
I'm no engineer, but wouldn't a cheap hose that expanded with pressure and Silca's super hose have no effect on accuracy? The cheap hose might take an insignificant more pumping since the hose will create more volume, but I don't see how that will make the pump more accurate.
I agree, it should not. It is all about the state of your tire/valve, and the accuracy of your gauge.

So why the f1 level hose? Have a look at silcas “shield” warranty for “ultimate” level products (and that is why i think it would be CrAZY to self modify the pump). Run over it with your car and they will replace it. The hose was likely chosen because they want it to last for 25 years. It is 110% overbuilt for a reason. And i am sure that hose is not cheap. Motorsport grade brake hoses that mortals like us can buy cost more than the silca pump. I should know, i used to race cars. Not cheap! (Stock car is cheaper, but i raced sports car$$$).

The practical cost of that “overbuilt” hose might be less flex. But a hose with more flex will not last 25 years before the rubber dries out, and hardens.

So i think the materials choice was deliberate. They want a pump that will survive the nuclear holocaust with the cockroaches. But just like bomb shelters being cold and hard, that comes with the territory if you want to survive an a-bomb.

Imho. Hahaha
Yes, Silca has a lifetime warranty. For that hose I would think it's safe, as anyone that actually bought the pump to use it, will replace the stupid stiff hose much sooner.
It's not a matter of being just uncomfortable, but the simple fact that you can't twist that hose, as in not one bit. That's extremely annoying in the long run.

Their warranty they can stuff, if it means the product has to be less than ideal functionality level.
Else they could as well have just supplied steel pipe instead of the hose, that would last even longer.....
I paid Silca $450 to not have to spend time to modify a Lezyne. Instead I ended up having to fix a Silca. :roll:

Besides, their marketing BS does in fact not mention overbuilt, but rather that it's very functional, due to claimed long term testing, whis by now obviously couldn't be further from the truth.

MrMagura
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:38 pm

by MrMagura

mattr wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 8:55 pm
A) It's probably 1100% overbuilt.
B) Most suitably sized industrial grade hoses should last 25 years at the sort of duty a track pump is doing, even pumping up 30x2 sets of tyres a day. The hose on my silca pump was still working perfectly the day that it went in the skip. Except for where it'd been sliced by tools, had stuff dropped on it, sprayed on it, scraped off it and been generally abused. That was already ~15 years old, and a cheap piece of hydraulic hose. A "motorsport spec" hose would have looked pretty much the same after 15 years as well.

I'm currently lining up parts to upgrade my renn. Industrial spec 63mm 14bar fluid filled gauge, 15 quid, tap to modify the base to take it 5 quid, hirame chuck, 55 quid (if they ever get stock again). That'll work as well, if not better than anything else on the market, and will only have cost me about 120 quid total. (And an hour to do the mods.)
The hose (8 quid to replace) will not be on the list of "essential upgrades". Because it isn't needed. Not by any stretch of the imagination.
Sounds like a plan.
A fluid filled gauge is a good beginning. Something Silca also managed to cut corners around.
The Hiro chuck is effectively a copy of the Hirame, just with the Hirame fitting regular hose. I machined my Hiro chuck to fit regular hose as well.
A chuck weighing on the wrong side of 150g due to adapters and svivels, is not a good idea!
My original plan was to simply make a pump based on a 30x500mm pneumatic cylinder, a fluid filled gauge, and a Hirame chuck, but bought the Silca as I thought I'd receive a finished product, and would thus save some effort.

RocketRacing
Posts: 778
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 am

by RocketRacing

mattr wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 8:55 pm
A) It's probably 1100% overbuilt.
B) Most suitably sized industrial grade hoses should last 25 years at the sort of duty a track pump is doing, even pumping up 30x2 sets of tyres a day. The hose on my silca pump was still working perfectly the day that it went in the skip. Except for where it'd been sliced by tools, had stuff dropped on it, sprayed on it, scraped off it and been generally abused. That was already ~15 years old, and a cheap piece of hydraulic hose. A "motorsport spec" hose would have looked pretty much the same after 15 years as well.

I'm currently lining up parts to upgrade my renn. Industrial spec 63mm 14bar fluid filled gauge, 15 quid, tap to modify the base to take it 5 quid, hirame chuck, 55 quid (if they ever get stock again). That'll work as well, if not better than anything else on the market, and will only have cost me about 120 quid total. (And an hour to do the mods.)
The hose (8 quid to replace) will not be on the list of "essential upgrades". Because it isn't needed. Not by any stretch of the imagination.
Everything diy is cheaper, especially if you have the know-how to do it right. My buddy/co-driver was a mechanic for pro race teams. He could build a car for far less than he charged his customers, because he cannot bill himself for the cost of his time. For the rest of us...

Most hoses may last 25 years. But if you are standing behind a 25 year warranty, as a company, do you spec a 8 quid hose, or a 25 quid hose? It is a mathmatical calculation involving risk/cost analysis.

And if you are indeed selling a 450$ pump, do you want people to see an 8 quid hose, even if it does the job for 98% of people? People buy a ferrari not to get to work faster, but to feel special. They demand that carbon fibre shift knob because they want it to be more special vs their neighbours hyundai, not because it will make a lick of difference for shifting. (Ferrari is a terrible example because, in the 2000’s, they specced some pretty crap components... clutch is one)

Also, knowing a bit of josh and his mentality (i do not know him, have never met him, nor am i in any way affiliated... aside from being impressed by what i have read and heard from josh from the internet. And of course, really liking my silca digital pump) i suspect he also specced the hose out of a love/association with motorsport. If i had a company that was making bike widgets and someone said... “we can put on an 8$ hose or a 50$ hose used in f1 cars”... f$@k-yeah i would go with the latter every time. Why? Because awesome!

And because he is obsessed with detail and the little things. And given that he is the type of owner to reply to a thread like this one in weight weenies... i suspect this is a painful thread to read.

And i suspect he is not getting rich over night with his 450$ pumps. I bet profit margins are not near porsche levels. Probably because the pumps are made by real people in the us or a, with living wages and occasional flaws and all (colnago owners know what i am talking of). Not in some chinease factory by machines or children that makes 90% of all other bike pumps and just puts the brand of choice on the package.

I support domestic companies and products (i am canadian btw). I support companies that focus on quality, and that give to the hobby. I support passionate people, and their companies. I support smaller companies. I like to talk to the owner. Trek, giant, specialized... not for me. Silca is one. Darimo is another. In both cases, i have talked to the owner when i had questions (via email). I value that.

I used to be poor as a schoolmouse, but now i have the privilage to afford to choose to pay a bit more for what i see as a “special” product. I also get cheap Chinese stuff (my rims... because they were the only rims that had f1 type 18k carbon and because awesome!!!).

Silca, great pump, great stuff, great blog (so much good free info!!!), and great podcast. I support that, i support the “quality and small details mentality” and it also buys a bit of fanaticism and loyalty from me as a customer.

Wow i am preachy today. Hahah. Glad i like to hear myself talk. Haha. Thanks for reading.
Last edited by RocketRacing on Fri May 10, 2019 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MrMagura
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:38 pm

by MrMagura

I'm sorry Rocket, but there's just no way you can justify a $450 track pump being anything but flawless.
A rare QC fluke can happen to anyone, but design flaws.....that's simply not an option.
Last edited by MrMagura on Fri May 10, 2019 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

RocketRacing
Posts: 778
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 am

by RocketRacing

Double post

RocketRacing
Posts: 778
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 am

by RocketRacing

MrMagura wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 9:49 pm
I'm sorry Rocket, but there's just no way you can justify a $450 track pump being anything but flawless.
A rare QC fluke can happen to anyone, but design flaws.....that's simply not an option.

It takes two equally stupid parties to get things that messed up.
1) Someone adequately stupid to trust a manufacturer
2) A manufacturer too stupid to design and manufacture a quality pump.

Sadly I was one of the above mentioned stupid parties.
The design/manufacture comment is a “N of 1.” Just like my satisfaction with my pump is a N or 1. I am sure there are more people in both camps, but be careful of broad generalizations.

I can justify a 450$ pump. And i accept that products made/designed by humans will have flaws. They WILL have flaws. (Actually i did not justify a 450$ pump... i figured the silca Digital was a better choice for my budget/needs).

And in regards to “stupid design”, Hell, my favorite car of all time is an air cooled 911. The god damn car is one big flaw (engine in the back?!? Air cooled, wtf?!?), and i love it for that reason.

I have a buddy that got a an exotic car... you know what happened? The shift knob fell off. So they sent him a new one. And it fell off too. The car costs more than most people’s house! Mind you, try telling ferrari that their product is crap... they will say “ok, buy another car.” Lol. So he glued it on and loves his car. It happens. You don’t demand a new shift knob design and then go and replace the cars transmission in your garage.

MrMagura
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:38 pm

by MrMagura

Yes, a minor flaw I think you can find in most products, but major flaws that deducts from the functionality, sorry, not in a product costing 5-6 times of the regular market price.
What you're saying is, that because you happen to like the guy behind a product, he's free to peddle any sub standard quality product?

I just had the top product of Silca completely disassembled.
A lot of what I saw, was in no way impressive, but rather choices made for profit optimisation.
The arrogance it takes to keep on trying to explain the customer he's a clown, when the product design and quality is obviously flawed.....
Trust me, they know perfectly well that they're selling a polished turd.
Anything that you can't see without disassembling it, is adhered to the lowest possible standard.

I fail to see why you would try to defend that?

mattr
Posts: 4636
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: The Grim North.

by mattr

RocketRacing wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 9:39 pm
Most hoses may last 25 years. But if you are standing behind a 25 year warranty, as a company, do you spec a 8 quid hose, or a 25 quid hose? It is a mathmatical calculation involving risk/cost analysis.
Yeah, i worked in warranty/quality on and off for 15+ years. I've done the calculations, and the design and the warranty. Function first. Tiny failure rate second.
RocketRacing wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 9:39 pm
“we can put on an 8$ hose or a 50$ hose used in f1 cars”... f$@k-yeah i would go with the latter every time. Why? Because awesome!
No, you find something that functions first and foremost *and* looks glossy/expensive as a bonus. Maybe a 12-15 dollar hose. Going to a massively overspeced hose means that now the hose doesn't function because it's too stiff (according to a customer) it's probably designed to be used at much higher temperatures, and be resistant to impacts/pinching (don't want high pressure oils spraying all over the place!) and also very high levels of vibration. None of which are remotely relevant to pumping tyres up.

Could have got a nice shiny braided flexy hose that would have looked as good, and functioned better. And last 25 years.

MrMagura
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:38 pm

by MrMagura

mattr wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 10:36 pm
and also very high levels of vibration. None of which are remotely relevant to pumping tyres up.
You have obviously never seen me pump tires! :mrgreen:

RocketRacing
Posts: 778
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 am

by RocketRacing

Mattr, You are 100% right on that there are probably cheaper hoses with the same (maybe better) quality... but they might lack the “awesome” factor. Maybe the f1 hose was made locally in the Usa. Who knows.

If you did the math, i am also sure you would come to the conclusion that 100% manufacture and design in china and printing a silca name would give the most profit. Good stuff... some of the best stuff can come from china at a very low cost. Sell high, big profit.

Maybe the hose was a non-ideal choice. Maybe it there was logic to it. Maybe there was an “awesome/marketing” choice. Maybe they wanted to be different.

But there are pros/cons with any choice. A metal hose might scratch my bike if they rubed together, or chip it if they collided. I have my bikes in my garage near my cars. Space is tight sometimes, i know i would have smashed a metal hose off my car by now. I am good at that kind of silly thing.

I bet if you emailed silca, and asked why they chose that hose, they would say why (i bet josh replies). If feedback was constructive, they might even change the design if enough customers gave similar feedback.

by Weenie


MrMagura
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:38 pm

by MrMagura

RocketRacing wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 11:02 pm
If feedback was constructive, they might even change the design if enough customers gave similar feedback.
Sorry, but I usually charge for R&D work. You're saying we should be grateful if Silca would recieve our work for free?
I was under the impression that I had already paid them for doing the required R&D.
Take a wild guess as to why, I haven't posted a few pics of a pump that actually works, showing the solutions?

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