The wheelbuilding thread

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
wolfesquire
Posts: 265
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:03 am

by wolfesquire

Any suggestion on a rim?

by Weenie


CallumRD1
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:54 pm

by CallumRD1

Marin wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:06 pm
STUB1 wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:25 am
What's wrong with centrelock? Other than limitations with hubs are there other issues?
* Needs fancy tools to change discs
- Centerlock rotors require a cassette lockring tool for installation and removal, a tool you should already have if you work on your own bikes.
* Sometimes even 2 different ones front & rear depending on axles
- A 15mm front thru axle requires a larger lockring that is removed with the same tool as standard Shimano BSA threaded bottom brackets. With a couple of exceptions for oddly designed front hubs that won't fit a standard lockring, this isn't an issue with 12mm road disk axles.
* Sometimes clearance issues with the calipers
- The calipers are nowhere near the lockring. They can't foul on each other.
* Needs complex 2-part brake discs with aluminum inner
- These two part rotors provide increased resistance to pinging, they're less likely to bend or warp, and can provide much better cooling when designed for it. (Better 6 bolt rotors are also available with this two piece construction. It's only budget or ultra light weight 6 bolt rotors that are single piece stamped steel.)
* Heavy
- See Below
* Not light
- See Below
My responses are in bold

As to weight, there's a lot of missinformation going around about the difference in weight between centerlock and 6 bolt rotors. I picked out as close to a direct comparison as I could. The DT Swiss 240S is a widely prased and often used hub, and the RT81/RT86 rotors are essentially identical high quality ice-tech rotors differing only in the hub interface. It should also be noted that all of Shimano's high end rotors (RT99, XTR, Ultrgra, and Dura Ace) are all only available in centerlock versions.

DT Swiss 240S 12x142mm straight pull centerlock weight: 228 g
DT Swiss 240S 12x142mm straight pull 6 bolt weight: 237 g
Shimano RT81 160mm centerlock rotor: 122 g
Shimano RT86 160mm 6 bolt rotor: 128 g
Centerlock lockring: 8 g
6 bolt bolts (6, steel): 14 g
6 bolt bolts (6, titanium): 7 g

Total centerlock system weight: 358 g
Total 6 bolt system weight: 379 g (steel bolts)

So as you can see, the centerlock system isn't "heavy" and "not light" but rather it's lighter than the six bolt mounting system when comparing apples to apples. There are lighter rotors available for 6 bolt fixings, but I will be sticking with my extremely capable and confidence inspring RT99 rotors, which are only available in centerlock form.

(As a side note, I corroborated this trend with my 12x148mm Industry Nine Torch mountain bike hubs with XD drivers, one with 6 bolt and one with centerlock. The centerlock hub was again lighter.)

STUB1
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:44 am

by STUB1

For front centerlock hubs it is important to get bearing info to make sure that bearing is not too small and axle tube is not too thin
(for rear hub it is less of a problem, because 15mm axle option is not offered - that saves 3mm extra room for axle tube or bearing)
[/quote]

Interesting. Thanks for the info. What are your thoughts on the new carbon ti x sp centrelock hubs? At 89g and 180g they seem like a great option for a weight weenie road disc build. It seems like there other model hubs are generally well regarded.

ooo
Posts: 830
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 12:59 pm

by ooo

STUB1 wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 12:10 am
ooo wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:46 pm
Hope front CL hub ⇒ 17x28x7 bearing ⇒ (28-17)×½ ⇒ balls<5.5mm + 15&12 axle tube thickness: (17-15)×½=1mm & (17-12)×½=2.5mm
Hope front 6-bolt ⇒ 20x32x7 bearing ⇒ (32-20)×½ ⇒ balls<6mm + 15&12 axle tube thickness: (20-15)×½=2.5mm & (20-12)×½=4mm

For front centerlock hubs it is important to get bearing info to make sure that bearing is not too small and axle tube is not too thin
(for rear hub it is less of a problem, because 15mm axle option is not offered - that saves 3mm extra room for axle tube or bearing)
Interesting. Thanks for the info. What are your thoughts on the new carbon ti x sp centrelock hubs? At 89g and 180g they seem like a great option for a weight weenie road disc build. It seems like there other model hubs are generally well regarded.
carbon-ti x-hub CL front ⇒ 17x26x5 bearing ⇒ (26-17)×½ ⇒ balls < 4.5mm & axle thickness (17-12)×½=2.5mm

front cl x-hub use thick axle+caps, small bearing, no 15mm option - thats ok, but they missed oportunity to make it compatible with small lockring
I only consider building straight pull with bladed spokes, but I don't see what is hole size, I hope it is compatible with cx-ray dimension spokes
preload system in front hub looks interesting. I can't comment about rear hub, rear hubs have more attributes and requires more attention to study
'

bm0p700f
in the industry
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
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by bm0p700f

The bearing is 6803 for the new front which is the same as in the 6 bolt hub.

No race bike use 15mm TA so why offer it.

Hole size is fine for CX rays.

The bearing preload system is not I retesting it quite normal.

Why make the hub compatible with the small lockring. If you use thicker end caps you can't.

Shimano should understand this and not supply lockring with there rotors. It is a problem of there making and hub manufacturers should not feel obliged to make there hubs to be compatible with the lockring they supply. It close design options down.

GondolfoDiRucola
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun May 05, 2019 2:39 pm

by GondolfoDiRucola

Wanting to build my first wheelset and still looking for some help, even after reading A LOT of pages on this great forum.

I will build with LB 46mm deep and 28mm wide rims with 25c tires.
As there is not a lot of free spacing between the chainstays in my CAD12, I guess the wheels need to be quite stiff to prevent wheel/break rub. Am i correct with that assumption?

I am quite light (~62kg) and not that powerfull, but like to ride out of the saddle on steep climbs.

I was thinking about getting Bitex RAR9/RAF10 or RAR12/RAF12 hubs, but I am not sure on the spoke count.
After reading about rider weight I think 20/24 should be enough, but after thinking about break/tire rub I am leaning more towards 24/28, or is that overkill?
I am also open for different hub recommendations, but I dont want to spend too much!

Thank you for helping me!

dastott
Posts: 183
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:35 pm

by dastott

Newbie wheel builder here , and embarrassingly made a very newbie mistake. I ordered some CN Aero494 spokes for extra stiffness but they are too wide to fit into my Tune hub spoke holes. Aside from the Powerway R13, are there any other hubs which would have spoke holes of 3mm or wider? Thank you.

Marin
Posts: 3535
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am
Location: Vienna Austria

by Marin

I'm running 494s rear drive side in Novatec SL hubs. Pretty sure Bitex would work too, but I won't recommend these.

bm0p700f
in the industry
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by bm0p700f

Bitexhubs are not slotted only the novatec f482 SL hub is of these mentioned.

Mackers
Posts: 485
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:02 pm

by Mackers

IMG_20190514_073708.jpg
Totally not a slotted Bitex hub.

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LouisN
Posts: 2769
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:44 am
Location: Canada

by LouisN

Question for Hozan spoke threader users:
I always had trouble threading bigger, "softer" metal spokes (like DT Champion) with the spoke threader. I have to make double passes, and even then the threads don't seem to be deep enough. For higher end spokes, like Sapim CX-Ray or Laser, never a problem.
I read there is a different head for stainless spokes. I think I have the stainless head but not sure....
Louis :)

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MayhemSWE
Posts: 355
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:44 pm
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

by MayhemSWE

So far only built road wheels but are now going to build myself two pair of gravel wheels. Disc brakes, probably Hope RS4 hubs, Farsports carbon rims for both but the difference being 700C gravel rims with 40 mm height versus 650B MTB-UltraLight rims. My weight 75 kg. What spoke counts and gauges would the more knowledgeable around here recommend?

Slammed
Posts: 122
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:32 am

by Slammed

MayhemSWE wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 3:54 pm
So far only built road wheels but are now going to build myself two pair of gravel wheels. Disc brakes, probably Hope RS4 hubs, Farsports carbon rims for both but the difference being 700C gravel rims with 40 mm height versus 650B MTB-UltraLight rims. My weight 75 kg. What spoke counts and gauges would the more knowledgeable around here recommend?
For both sets of wheels I'd probably go with 24/28, 2x front, 2x nds rear and 3x ds. You could probably do more spokes in the front or less in the back but 24/28 is a good middle ground. If you're looking to save a bit of $ then something like the Sapim race would be a good spoke, but otherwise I'd just go with cx-rays all around.

bm0p700f
in the industry
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by bm0p700f

All the bitex hubs I have seen are not slotted. The slotted version must be a model I have not seen. Which one is it mackers.

by Weenie


Marin
Posts: 3535
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am
Location: Vienna Austria

by Marin

Slammed wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 6:00 pm
MayhemSWE wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 3:54 pm
So far only built road wheels but are now going to build myself two pair of gravel wheels. Disc brakes, probably Hope RS4 hubs, Farsports carbon rims for both but the difference being 700C gravel rims with 40 mm height versus 650B MTB-UltraLight rims. My weight 75 kg. What spoke counts and gauges would the more knowledgeable around here recommend?
For both sets of wheels I'd probably go with 24/28
The front wheel will see the highest torque, don't use fewer spokes there!

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