Odds that we see disc brake only bikes go back to having rim offerings?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Locked
mattr
Posts: 4673
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: The Grim North.

by mattr

mendiz wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:40 pm
I did 10000 kms per year, never I had any problem, more than 200000 kms, I still use front and rear derailleur and brakes, I changed the shifters. Bad mechanics is not the problema of a group.
Nothing to do with bad mechanics. Any sort of a knock to the rear mech and your indexing was out. Then you have to realign with the adjuster after every shift. DT, you just switched to friction mode and did it the old fashioned way. By ear.
Get a clonk to the bars or have the shifter move, same problem. Though easier to fix.

I think you need to remove your rose tinted glasses.

spdntrxi
Posts: 3141
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

maybe when 3d printing a frame in an hour or two... it wont matter much the cost of molds and such.

by Weenie


User avatar
Lewn777
Posts: 834
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

I'm wondering how the market will evolve.
Will we see a bigger disk brake bandwagon or a smaller one? Quite a few people that have used disk brakes extensively either on mountain bikes, road, CX or gravel type bikes are pretty sure that they have no place on their climbing road bike. Will these people (like me) be a small niche that will be catered to by small more likely European manufacturers, and the mass market Taiwanese/American big players and volume direct sales go disk only? Will the big players try to force disk brakes only for the pro peloton to force rim brakes into a smaller market?

Currently I'm not interested in disk brakes on my road bike but would be if I could see.....
-Standardisation and spacing written down agreed to and adhered to. Even maybe the best patents eg. axles not enforced or dropped to benefit the market and consumer. So all wheels will fit perfectly on every other bike without adjustment. So that the neutral service vehicle will be of use for pros or I can switch between my shallow and deep wheels without fear or disk rub or bolt adjustment.
-Lighter hydraulic brake systems, so they seem less like a MTB system for the road, but more like a road designed system from the ground up.
-Increased pad clearance.
-Reasonably compact sized hoods.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4197
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

You’re welcome to clutch them until your personal tipping point, but the reality is they’ll be limited to “boutique” / custom within a couple of update cycles.

Of course manufacturing/packaging techniques and standards will continue to evolve. Don’t be surprised if you see Road Boost rear axle dimensions in the near future along with a corresponding widening of bottom brackets.

Mep
Posts: 498
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 4:11 pm

by Mep

The American manufacturers have long left rim brakes as history, but companies like Giant, Scott and Canyon will be more cautious to follow. I'm sure the sales numbers in America are what drove their strategy. The question is whether the rest of the world will show the same demand for disc brakes. My gut says no, but only time will tell. If I'm right, it will surely be a really interesting time for the industry.

commendatore
Posts: 238
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:51 am
Location: North Carolina

by commendatore

Lewn777 wrote:Quite a few people that have used disk brakes extensively either on mountain bikes, road, CX or gravel type bikes are pretty sure that they have no place on their climbing road bike.
Speak for yourself. Every mountain I go up, I come down the other side. Disc brakes aren’t perfect yet, but they’ll be on my next road frame and every other after that.

spdntrxi
Posts: 3141
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:50 am
You’re welcome to clutch them until your personal tipping point, but the reality is they’ll be limited to “boutique” / custom within a couple of update cycles.

Of course manufacturing/packaging techniques and standards will continue to evolve. Don’t be surprised if you see Road Boost rear axle dimensions in the near future along with a corresponding widening of bottom brackets.
I'm all for disc brakes... as I switched last year 100% over...

widening BB and boost spacing.. please no. :) but I wont be surprised either..(will start with gravel)

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4197
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Mep wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:09 am
The American manufacturers have long left rim brakes as history, but companies like Giant, Scott and Canyon will be more cautious to follow. I'm sure the sales numbers in America are what drove their strategy. The question is whether the rest of the world will show the same demand for disc brakes. My gut says no, but only time will tell. If I'm right, it will surely be a really interesting time for the industry.

This isn't just limited to the disc brakes themselves. There are several forces pushing the bike manufacturers to adopt disc brakes. Josh at Silca says all of the R&D money in the tire business is now going into tubeless. There will always be a risk of overheating a rim brake carbon clincher to the point where the resin softens or starts to flow again. Tubs just aren't part of the long-term vision. Wheel brands are similarly putting all their eggs in the tubeless clincher basket.

It doesn't really matter what slow-moving brands like Look and Time might do. The industry forces are toward disc.

rollinslow
Posts: 94
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:25 am

by rollinslow

The irony of this whole situation is that the majority of people buying off the shelf mid range bikes with 105 disc brakes are the ones least likely to be slaying a 6000ft descent in snow/rain. I think rim brakes will be present on ultra high end bikes not made by generic companies like specialized. Custom titanium, custom carbon like Parlee, Colnago, etc and high end component manufacturers.

User avatar
Lewn777
Posts: 834
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

commendatore wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:30 am
Lewn777 wrote:Quite a few people that have used disk brakes extensively either on mountain bikes, road, CX or gravel type bikes are pretty sure that they have no place on their climbing road bike.
Speak for yourself. Every mountain I go up, I come down the other side. Disc brakes aren’t perfect yet, but they’ll be on my next road frame and every other after that.
Quite a few people. Not everyone, is that unclear somehow? :noidea:

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4197
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

rollinslow wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:57 am
The irony of this whole situation is that the majority of people buying off the shelf mid range bikes with 105 disc brakes are the ones least likely to be slaying a 6000ft descent in snow/rain. I think rim brakes will be present on ultra high end bikes not made by generic companies like specialized. Custom titanium, custom carbon like Parlee, Colnago, etc and high end component manufacturers.

It doesn't have to be a 6000ft descent in the rain though.

It can be any technical descent of pretty much any length as long as they are pushing the watts out and not simply coasting.

It can be adverse weather on a completely flat road.

Also there are plenty of amateur racers on 105-level equipment who will benefit from the ability to feather/modulate braking through corners. After all the fastest way through a corner is to overcook the entry and feather the brake up until the apex.

I honestly don't see rim-brake bikes being a significant part of Parlee or Colnago's business by the end of the decade. When I say boutique, I mean really boutique. Both Parlee and Colnago are well down the disc-brake rabbit hole. Hell, Colnago jumped in so early they had non-standard bikes with 12x135mm TAs...

Mep
Posts: 498
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 4:11 pm

by Mep


TobinHatesYou wrote:
This isn't just limited to the disc brakes themselves. There are several forces pushing the bike manufacturers to adopt disc brakes. Josh at Silca says all of the R&D money in the tire business is now going into tubeless. There will always be a risk of overheating a rim brake carbon clincher to the point where the resin softens or starts to flow again. Tubs just aren't part of the long-term vision. Wheel brands are similarly putting all their eggs in the tubeless clincher basket.

It doesn't really matter what slow-moving brands like Look and Time might do. The industry forces are toward disc.
That's an interesting point, thanks for sharing. If tubeless tech really takes off though, meaning there's no longer any risk of inner tubes blowing out from heat, doesn't that help bring rim brakes back into relevance?

spdntrxi
Posts: 3141
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

Mep wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:23 am
TobinHatesYou wrote:
This isn't just limited to the disc brakes themselves. There are several forces pushing the bike manufacturers to adopt disc brakes. Josh at Silca says all of the R&D money in the tire business is now going into tubeless. There will always be a risk of overheating a rim brake carbon clincher to the point where the resin softens or starts to flow again. Tubs just aren't part of the long-term vision. Wheel brands are similarly putting all their eggs in the tubeless clincher basket.

It doesn't really matter what slow-moving brands like Look and Time might do. The industry forces are toward disc.
That's an interesting point, thanks for sharing. If tubeless tech really takes off though, meaning there's no longer any risk of inner tubes blowing out from heat, doesn't that help bring rim brakes back into relevance?
no because the rim brake portion of the rim is very complicated in terms of material makeup.. especially resins. You can still delaminate regardless of lack of tubes.

spdntrxi
Posts: 3141
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

Mep wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:23 am
TobinHatesYou wrote:
This isn't just limited to the disc brakes themselves. There are several forces pushing the bike manufacturers to adopt disc brakes. Josh at Silca says all of the R&D money in the tire business is now going into tubeless. There will always be a risk of overheating a rim brake carbon clincher to the point where the resin softens or starts to flow again. Tubs just aren't part of the long-term vision. Wheel brands are similarly putting all their eggs in the tubeless clincher basket.

It doesn't really matter what slow-moving brands like Look and Time might do. The industry forces are toward disc.
That's an interesting point, thanks for sharing. If tubeless tech really takes off though, meaning there's no longer any risk of inner tubes blowing out from heat, doesn't that help bring rim brakes back into relevance?
double post

by Weenie


sethjs
Posts: 180
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:02 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA

by sethjs

I think an important point here is that from an engineering point of view it's highly non optimal to build a frame / fork that can do both rim and disc. If you're trying to design to accommodate both, each ends up non optimized. Eg fork crown low for rim, but better if higher for aerodynamics and tire fit if disc brake version. Or carbon layup accounting for where the stresses are. You actually should want to ride a frame that's built / optimized for one or the other. Eg the new Venge. To state the obvious it's also expensive to design for two versions when in all likelihood volume isn't much higher when people have the choice.

Net: in all likelihood everything goes toward disc pretty quickly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Locked
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post