Specialized vs. Cervelo

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
wingguy
Posts: 4305
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm

by wingguy

Phippy wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:25 pm
I would make sure the R5 Novatec rims are tubeless and check the warranty.
The wheels are tubeless. Don’t know about the warranty.

by Weenie


PokojniToza
Posts: 202
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:41 pm

by PokojniToza

Get the one that:
a) fits you better
b) looks nicer

Both would inspire you to ride more and faster. Just my two cents.

Kazyole
Posts: 140
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:45 am
Location: NYC

by Kazyole

Look at the geometry charts and get the one that fits you better.

Cervelo S3:
https://www.donsbikeshop.com/images/lib ... 3-geo3.jpg

Venge Pro:
https://geometrygeeks.bike/bike/special ... -pro-2019/

You're tall so I assume you're looking at the upper end of the frame size spectrum. In the 61cm for each you're looking at a difference of 28mm in stack (Venge is lower) and a 6mm difference in reach (Venge is longer).

So if you're mega flexible, you can get longer and lower on the Venge. If you don't have rubber for a spine, an equivalent setup on the S3 is going to look better because you'll need fewer spacers and a longer stem.

Or says screw it and just get the one that you like better aesthetically. The best bike for you is the one you want to ride the most.

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Lewn777
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Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

wingguy wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:02 pm
Lewn777 wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:49 pm
The POINT is that there isn't much difference, likely some Specialized and Cervelos are made in the same factory using the same or similar carbon sheet and epoxy with likely the same Shimano groupset.
I still don’t see what the point of saying that is. So two bikes are made in the same country.... how does that automatically mean there’s not much difference between them?

And not much difference in what way, specifically?

Again, are they also the same just because they were both designed in North America?
Why derail the thread with this nonsensical side argument?
You continually highlight small points I made which were not that important comapred with the context they were made in, to try to somehow invalidate my posts. Yet you make zero constructive contributions to the thread yourself. The point of the thread is to help the OP decide what bike they might like to buy, not be an internet superhero highlighting forum post wrongness or pointlessness.

stevod
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 8:09 am

by stevod

PokojniToza wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:21 pm
Get the one that:
a) fits you better
b) looks nicer

Both would inspire you to ride more and faster. Just my two cents.
Deffo. It has to fit. Then it’s all about the look.

[not relevant, but isn’t the Specialized German-designed?]

jmechy
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:18 am

by jmechy

cyclenutnz wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:59 am
Canyon Aeroad a terrible option unless you can tolerate massive bar drop (seriously, that bike doesn't suit 95% of people).
Can you elaborate on that? Pondering moving from a Specialized Tarmac (SL5) to an Aeroad, and currently run a saddle to bar drop of around 10-12cm. Looking at the geometries of the two bikes made me think that a move from a 58 Tarmac to a L aeroad would be a fairly close match, though the top tube on the Canyon is 10mm shorter which might require a longer stem than I'm used to.

fromtrektocolnago
Posts: 1140
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:15 pm

by fromtrektocolnago

My two cents is go specialized. I think they customize their geometry across sizes a bit more. That's a small thing that doesn't show up in the specs.
Colnago C-59 (Dura Ace)
Firefly(Ultegra)
Colnago C-64 disc(ultegra) with Bora 35 wheels

TobinHatesYou
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

jmechy wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:29 am

Can you elaborate on that? Pondering moving from a Specialized Tarmac (SL5) to an Aeroad, and currently run a saddle to bar drop of around 10-12cm. Looking at the geometries of the two bikes made me think that a move from a 58 Tarmac to a L aeroad would be a fairly close match, though the top tube on the Canyon is 10mm shorter which might require a longer stem than I'm used to.

The XL Aeroad has a frame reach of 417mm and a stack of 592mm. The 2XL has a reach of 423mm and stack of 612mm. That's really long and low for what are effectively 60cm and 62cm sized frames.

For comparison, an H1 Emonda SLR is already an aggressive bike, and it has a reach of 407mm / stack of 606mm in size 62cm. A 63cm SuperSix Evo has a reach of 411mm and a stack of 626mm.

In your case a L Aeroad is a bit less extreme than an XL and 2XL, but it's still very long and low compared to pretty much any other non-custom frame besides an H1 Trek .

wingguy
Posts: 4305
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm

by wingguy

Lewn777 wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:31 pm
Why derail the thread with this nonsensical side argument?
If it’s nonsense, why did you say it in the first place? If it’s unimportant, why are you so angry about being challenged over it?

When someone gives advice that is wrong, it is actually constructive to point out that it is wrong. Unfortunately it can lead to people like you dragging threads down with off topic rants because your ego can’t handle it, but what can I do about that?

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Lewn777
Posts: 833
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

wingguy wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:47 am
Lewn777 wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:31 pm
Why derail the thread with this nonsensical side argument?
If it’s nonsense, why did you say it in the first place? If it’s unimportant, why are you so angry about being challenged over it?

When someone gives advice that is wrong, it is actually constructive to point out that it is wrong. Unfortunately it can lead to people like you dragging threads down with off topic rants because your ego can’t handle it, but what can I do about that?
Ignore mode:ON

Karvalo
Posts: 737
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

fromtrektocolnago wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:33 am
My two cents is go specialized. I think they customize their geometry across sizes a bit more. That's a small thing that doesn't show up in the specs.
Will that automatically result in a better bike for the OP? So, Spesh change their seattube angles while Cervelo don't, but in the giant sizes they're both 73 anyway. Spesh change their head angle for more sizes than Cervelo do, while Cervelo change BB drop and Fork offset more than Spesh do.

What do you conclude about the relative performances of the two 61cm bikes from that information?

Stueys
Posts: 366
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:12 pm

by Stueys

Ultimately both make great bikes, so get the one that fits and looks better. From a brand perspective I would give the nod to Spesh at the moment (despite having 2 Cervelo’s), subjectively I think they are out r&d-ing everyone at the moment..

cyclenutnz
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Location: Cambridge, New Zealand
Contact:

by cyclenutnz

Lewn777 wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:21 am
I rode a R3 and a tarmac in about the same groupo, and the Cervelo was a porker getting on for a kg heavier. and it also handled like a pig. You're entitled to your opinion, even though it's completely incorrect.
It can't be 'about the same gruppo' and have a close to 1kg weight difference. Both Tarmac 10r and R3 are claimed in the mid 900s. So something else was gaining a lot of weight. Possibly the wheels as that could have a marked impact on 'handling like a pig' - the differences in steering geometry and weight distribution are minor between those frames in most sizes.

It's fine that subjectively you felt the Tarmac was better. I'm not convinced that you controlled the experiment well but that doesn devalue your perception. We each have our own preferences and fortunately there are bikes to suit a variety of tastes. But the important thing to note about subjectivity is that it doesn't mean people that disagree with you are 'completely incorrect'

As it happens, I've been to some of the factories mentioned in this thread and it's likely I know a bit more about the bike industry than most. My reference to Spec copying Cervelo was from the Tarmac SL3 days. Of late Specialized have become far less imitative and I actually like their bikes.
http://www.speedtheory.co.nz
http://www.velogicfit.com - 3D Motion Capture and Frame Finder Software

cyclenutnz
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Location: Cambridge, New Zealand
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by cyclenutnz

jmechy wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:29 am
Looking at the geometries of the two bikes made me think that a move from a 58 Tarmac to a L aeroad would be a fairly close match,
To add to what Tobinhatesyou said
jmechy.JPG
You can see that the L would require the same length stem and 20mm more spacers (bar XY at the bottom shows the coordinates of the centre of the stem clamp)
If you move up to the XL (not shown) the spacers stay the same but the stem gets 20mm shorter
http://www.speedtheory.co.nz
http://www.velogicfit.com - 3D Motion Capture and Frame Finder Software

by Weenie


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Lewn777
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Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

cyclenutnz wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:22 am
Lewn777 wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:21 am
I rode a R3 and a tarmac in about the same groupo, and the Cervelo was a porker getting on for a kg heavier. and it also handled like a pig. You're entitled to your opinion, even though it's completely incorrect.
It can't be 'about the same gruppo' and have a close to 1kg weight difference. Both Tarmac 10r and R3 are claimed in the mid 900s. So something else was gaining a lot of weight. Possibly the wheels as that could have a marked impact on 'handling like a pig' - the differences in steering geometry and weight distribution are minor between those frames in most sizes.

It's fine that subjectively you felt the Tarmac was better. I'm not convinced that you controlled the experiment well but that doesn devalue your perception. We each have our own preferences and fortunately there are bikes to suit a variety of tastes. But the important thing to note about subjectivity is that it doesn't mean people that disagree with you are 'completely incorrect'

As it happens, I've been to some of the factories mentioned in this thread and it's likely I know a bit more about the bike industry than most. My reference to Spec copying Cervelo was from the Tarmac SL3 days. Of late Specialized have become far less imitative and I actually like their bikes.
Yeah, I live in China and I've got friends who've visited the factories recently, some are very local to me. The time that random foreign visitors can visit are well and truly over, as we might spill the beans. Obviously the big wigs from big brands can still get in there.

You are right again the difference between the SL5 and R3 was mostly in the wheels. Regardless is still believe there is something a bit off with Cervelo handling - to my taste, and I prefer Specialized finishing kit, their bar tape, saddles, stems, wheels tires etc seem much more to my taste so making me much less likely to spend money switching stuff out from new. But again that's subjective opinion.

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