What is Trek launching?

Questions about bike hire abroad and everything light bike related. No off-topic chat please

Moderator: Moderator Team

AJS914
Posts: 4321
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

My post was partly in jest and I'm happy with the Ballista but I do think it's kind of annoying when you call the new helmets 30 years better and dump old product on clubs/teams a week or two before this 30 years better technology is announced.

One thing that they don't address is Wavecell verses MIPS. They seem to be complimentary technologies that should be combined. Wavecell has better shock absorption than EPS foam but MIPS is all about the helmet being able to slide/move upon impact. It seems like the ultimate helmet would use both technologies.

by Weenie


TobinHatesYou
Posts: 6478
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

AJS914 wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:18 pm
My post was partly in jest and I'm happy with the Ballista but I do think it's kind of annoying when you call the new helmets 30 years better and dump old product on clubs/teams a week or two before this 30 years better technology is announced.

One thing that they don't address is Wavecell verses MIPS. They seem to be complimentary technologies that should be combined. Wavecell has better shock absorption than EPS foam but MIPS is all about the helmet being able to slide/move upon impact. It seems like the ultimate helmet would use both technologies.

Wavecel is basically what you are asking for. It’s a fancier Koroyd with a pattern that effectively creates a slip/glide layer around the head as it collapses.

TheRich
Posts: 734
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:36 am

by TheRich

AJS914 wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:05 pm
If I had a contact with Trek I send them an FU message.

Last month they offered my club/team a pro deal on helmets. I just got my new Ballista MIPS last week. So, it appears that they sold us shitty 30 year old technology so they could blow out old inventory as they were introducing new helmets. And here we thought they wanted to be nice and support local cycling teams.

Thanks Trek!
Feel free to pay retail. Besides, the Ballista is still faster than the XXX and that's why you got it, right?

User avatar
Leviathan
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:49 am
Location: Mallorca, Spain
Contact:

by Leviathan

Its a helmet which offers a marginal improvement on a couple of others on the market. "A tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing"

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 6478
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

The marginal improvement helps prevent/slow CTE and other cumulative, irreversible brain injuries. It’s not sexy, but it’s a bigger step forward than a lighter, stiffer frame.

fromtrektocolnago
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:15 pm

by fromtrektocolnago

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:20 pm
The marginal improvement helps prevent/slow CTE and other cumulative, irreversible brain injuries. It’s not sexy, but it’s a bigger step forward than a lighter, stiffer frame.
i wasn't aware that independent tests were already released
Colnago C-59 (Dura Ace)
Firefly(Ultegra)
Colnago C-64 disc(ultegra) with Bora 35 wheels

Karvalo
Posts: 1207
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

ms6073 wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:06 pm
While the wife and I only ride with MIPS equipped helmets from Lazer, my non-scientific/laymen WAG would be to say that the WaveCel helps reduce the energy of the impact in vertical and lateral axis where as MIPS while being intended to reduce rotational energy, is essentially limited to lateral deflection.
The WaveCel is also claimed to be significantly better than MIPS at reducing rotational forces. Having had my hands on it today, it makes sense. Not only can the cell structure collapse sideways, it can also slide against the EPS layer of the helmet (one of the ways it's structuraly quite different to Koroyd).

As an aside, the white paper for this helmet is the densest, most purely sciency white paper I've ever seen in the bike industry., by a huge distance.

Karvalo
Posts: 1207
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

AJS914 wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:18 pm
One thing that they don't address is Wavecell verses MIPS. They seem to be complimentary technologies that should be combined. Wavecell has better shock absorption than EPS foam but MIPS is all about the helmet being able to slide/move upon impact. It seems like the ultimate helmet would use both technologies.
Both the whitepaper test results and the marketing specifically address this point, in some detail.

If the whitepaper is TL:DR, short version is that WaveCel is better than MIPS at doing what MIPS does.

TheRich
Posts: 734
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:36 am

by TheRich

This technology already exists in football helmets.

Karvalo
Posts: 1207
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

spud wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:19 pm
With regards to WaveCel vs Koroyd or Hexo, I suspect they do the same thing mechanically. Though there may be differences in how well they ventilate due to dead-ends, angle of wall orientation to air flow etc.
Only up to a point.According to Trek Koroyd is a rigid structure, which is made in the helmet shape and solidly attached in the helmet. Because WaveCel is softer and more flexible it can be bent into shape in the helmet and is only attached around the edges, making it much more free to move when there is a big rotational force.

spud
Posts: 900
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:52 am

by spud

much to be admired in this product, but I do have questions about the ventilation, as well as the weight - about 90 grams heavier than a standard helment. I'm not calibrated enough to know whether that will increase neck ache. Looking forward to seeing some 3rd party practical testing.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 6478
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

fromtrektocolnago wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:29 pm

i wasn't aware that independent tests were already released

Does the VT test count? https://www.helmet.beam.vt.edu/bicycle- ... tings.html

Karvalo
Posts: 1207
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

AJS914 wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:18 pm
One thing that they don't address is Wavecell verses MIPS.
Not to belabour the point, but it seems a lot of people had this thought, this picture is page 3 of the study they released.

Image

User avatar
Calnago
In Memoriam
Posts: 8608
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

TobinHatesYou wrote:
fromtrektocolnago wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:29 pm

i wasn't aware that independent tests were already released

Does the VT test count? https://www.helmet.beam.vt.edu/bicycle- ... tings.html
Depends where its funding comes from... did any of the funding come from Trek?
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

by Weenie


User avatar
kgt
Posts: 8715
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Location: Athens, Greece

by kgt

According to Snell there is no performance (safety) gain with MIPS:
https://helmets.org/mips.htm
And Virginia Tech's protocols are not perfect since:
"Only 30 models were rated in the initial testing. Ten were MIPS models. They were tested using the methodology that MIPS uses: sticky headform, tight strap, severe anvil angle, rough grippy anvil, no neck. That methodology couples the headform more tightly to the helmet than it would be in the real world. It would be expected to favor the MIPS models, unlike the Snell Foundation's research that showed no benefit from MIPS."
https://helmets.org/vatechstar.htm

So, don't get crazy with Trek's claims. Maybe we will know in 30 years from now.

Post Reply