What is Trek launching?

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spud
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by spud

I haven't waded into the white paper yet, but how does WaveCel compared against a standard EPS helmet with a MIPS liner? Did they cite MIPS results in the white paper?

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tymon_tm
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by tymon_tm

that sure is an important piece of gear, heck - even life saving fwiw - but why the hell do those helmets look like they were designed in the 80's...? :roll:
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fromtrektocolnago
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by fromtrektocolnago

spud wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:50 pm
I haven't waded into the white paper yet, but how does WaveCel compared against a standard EPS helmet with a MIPS liner? Did they cite MIPS results in the white paper?
I think the point is to save Trek & Bontrager MIPS licensing fees.
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ms6073
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by ms6073

spud wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:50 pm
I haven't waded into the white paper yet, but how does WaveCel compared against a standard EPS helmet with a MIPS liner?
While the wife and I only ride with MIPS equipped helmets from Lazer, my non-scientific/laymen WAG would be to say that the WaveCel helps reduce the energy of the impact in vertical and lateral axis where as MIPS while being intended to reduce rotational energy, is essentially limited to lateral deflection.
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spud
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by spud

just read the abstract. According to it, yes, there is a significant difference between WaveCel and Mips. In fact, there is a greater difference WaveCel vs MIPS than MIPS vs standard. Assuming the research isn't biased, or that the test protocol doesn't unfairly favor WaveSel.

fromtrektocolnago
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by fromtrektocolnago

spud wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:08 pm
just read the abstract. According to it, yes, there is a significant difference between WaveCel and Mips. In fact, there is a greater difference WaveCel vs MIPS than MIPS vs standard. Assuming the research isn't biased, or that the test protocol doesn't unfairly favor WaveSel.
what about koroyd or Hexo?
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spud
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by spud

ms6073 wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:06 pm
spud wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:50 pm
I haven't waded into the white paper yet, but how does WaveCel compared against a standard EPS helmet with a MIPS liner?
While the wife and I only ride with MIPS equipped helmets from Lazer, my non-scientific/laymen WAG would be to say that the WaveCel helps reduce the energy of the impact in vertical and lateral axis where as MIPS while being intended to reduce rotational energy, is essentially limited to lateral deflection.
what little I have read of head impact/trauma suggests that rotational acceleration is in fact the determining factor in concussion, much more so that direct impact. MIPS is useful in this respect, but perhaps limited in its ability to reduce it compared to WaveCel. Even with the slip layer, at 90G acceleration, there is significant load between the layer and the helmet, thus friction between the shell and liner can still impart acceleration. WaveCel has no such boundary, so it allows the shell to freely rotate around the skull.

With regards to WaveCel vs Koroyd or Hexo, I suspect they do the same thing mechanically. Though there may be differences in how well they ventilate due to dead-ends, angle of wall orientation to air flow etc.

Fisherfreerider
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by Fisherfreerider

fromtrektocolnago wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:13 pm
spud wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:08 pm
just read the abstract. According to it, yes, there is a significant difference between WaveCel and Mips. In fact, there is a greater difference WaveCel vs MIPS than MIPS vs standard. Assuming the research isn't biased, or that the test protocol doesn't unfairly favor WaveSel.
what about koroyd or Hexo?
Koroyd was never really tested to mitigate rotational impacts, only linear.

spud
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by spud

From the white paper -
"An earlier attempt of employing a cellular structure as a rotational suspension system in bicycle helmets has been introduced by Hansen et al in the form of an Angular Impact Mitigation (AIM) system, comprised of an elastically suspended aluminum honeycomb liner (Hansen et al., 2013). In vertical drop tests at 4.8 m/s onto a 30° anvil, their cellular structure reduced linear acceleration by 14%, rotational acceleration by 34%, and neck loading by up to 32% compared to a traditional EPS bicycle helmet. In combination, these findings suggest that elastic suspension of a properly designed cellular structure has the potential to reduce ro- tational acceleration and brain injury risk"

No brand label here, perhaps someone knows if this is/was a commercialized product or just a test scenario.

fromtrektocolnago
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by fromtrektocolnago

spud wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:05 pm
From the white paper -
"An earlier attempt of employing a cellular structure as a rotational suspension system in bicycle helmets has been introduced by Hansen et al in the form of an Angular Impact Mitigation (AIM) system, comprised of an elastically suspended aluminum honeycomb liner (Hansen et al., 2013). In vertical drop tests at 4.8 m/s onto a 30° anvil, their cellular structure reduced linear acceleration by 14%, rotational acceleration by 34%, and neck loading by up to 32% compared to a traditional EPS bicycle helmet. In combination, these findings suggest that elastic suspension of a properly designed cellular structure has the potential to reduce ro- tational acceleration and brain injury risk"

No brand label here, perhaps someone knows if this is/was a commercialized product or just a test scenario.
I'm sure Specialized will be doing their damage control. This could also draw attention to the Hexo product. Also its quite possible someone will reverse engineer a similar solution. I love competition. Helmet design has lagged for too long.
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SilentDrone
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by SilentDrone

I'm all in for a better helmet. I suffered a pretty significant concussion about a year and a half ago. I think its unwise to have less than a state of the art helmet when cycling.

I don't mind the hype , but its not accurate that Trek is comparing this new helmet to the foam helmet from 30 years ago and saying that there has been no advancement since those foam helmets, completely overlooking the MIPS system that Trek was only recently promoting as being an amazing advancement.

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alistaird
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by alistaird

Good thread... Just put my name down for a Hexo Helmet....

A

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fromtrektocolnago
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by fromtrektocolnago

alistaird wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:25 pm
Good thread... Just put my name down for a Hexo Helmet....

A

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Why do you like the Hexo helmet over the Bontrager?
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AJS914
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by AJS914

If I had a contact with Trek I send them an FU message.

Last month they offered my club/team a pro deal on helmets. I just got my new Ballista MIPS last week. So, it appears that they sold us shitty 30 year old technology so they could blow out old inventory as they were introducing new helmets. And here we thought they wanted to be nice and support local cycling teams.

Thanks Trek!

Fisherfreerider
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by Fisherfreerider

AJS914 wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:05 pm
If I had a contact with Trek I send them an FU message.

Last month they offered my club/team a pro deal on helmets. I just got my new Ballista MIPS last week. So, it appears that they sold us shitty 30 year old technology so they could blow out old inventory as they were introducing new helmets. And here we thought they wanted to be nice and support local cycling teams.

Thanks Trek!
They still sold you one of the best helmets.
https://www.helmet.beam.vt.edu/bicycle- ... tings.html

by Weenie


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