Cervelo RCA or Custom Bike

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Stueys
Posts: 351
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by Stueys

exctasy wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:49 am
@stueys sooo I'm not the only one feeling it :D
I live in a country where there are no long alp descents..but I do overseas ride with such descents at least once a year
Yeah, short chainstays make it feel punchy on the climbs but don’t help it feel planted on the way down. I love technical twisty descents, long straights aren’t great though.

by Weenie


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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

Lelandjt wrote:
ultimobici wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:00 am
Lelandjt wrote:RCA was soooo sweet. A custom may "fit" you better but it won't be made as well. I know the guy who made them and he's the master of carbon.
Really? I’ve seen several bare RCa frames close up and they aren’t anything special in the quality stakes compared to top custom builders.

Just a Cervelo that is less likely to crack! ;)


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It's the layup that makes it special.
Yeah, right!


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RyanH
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by RyanH


Stueys wrote:Yeah, short chainstays make it feel punchy on the climbs but don’t help it feel planted on the way down. I love technical twisty descents, long straights aren’t great though.
This is the tradeoff you have to decide. After trying many bikes, I realized that I would much rather have a nimble descending bike on tight technical descents while giving up some of the planted feeling on sweeping turns. A long chainstay, super planted bike feels like ass down a descent like Tuna Canyon in Santa Monica.

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Lelandjt
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by Lelandjt

ultimobici wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:41 pm
Lelandjt wrote:
ultimobici wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:00 am
Lelandjt wrote:RCA was soooo sweet. A custom may "fit" you better but it won't be made as well. I know the guy who made them and he's the master of carbon.
Really? I’ve seen several bare RCa frames close up and they aren’t anything special in the quality stakes compared to top custom builders.

Just a Cervelo that is less likely to crack! ;)


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It's the layup that makes it special.
Yeah, right!


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Why don't you believe me? Why doesn't this seem obvious when it's common knowledge that Cervelo contracted an American composites company to design a layup and build a version of their existing bike that was better than they could design or have built in Asia? This is the guy that MANY bike companies turn to when they wan the best layup for their project.

uraqt
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by uraqt

"obvious when it's common knowledge that Cervelo contracted an American composites company to design a layup and build a version of their existing bike that was better than they could design or have built in Asia? "

That is not common knowledge, I am a cervelo fan boy and have read almost everything published and or "talked about" on all the cervelo R series bikes. I have never seen anything like that and Cervelo has posted here about the R5CA and the RCA the opposite of what you are saying...The R5CA and the RCA were both designed and built in CA to test and learn how to build the matching version R5.

@Lelandjt

Please provide your source.

C

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Lelandjt
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by Lelandjt

uraqt wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:31 am
The R5CA and the RCA were both designed and built in CA.
I feel like we're saying the same thing. Were you under the impression that Cervelo has a facility in Orange County? I guess I don't know how much of the deal between Cervelo and this American composites company is public knowledge so I don't want to say anything that's not already out there. My source is the owner and head engineer of this company. The company I work for, Santana Tandems, is currently contracting him to design and build a frame for us so I've worked and ridden with him a lot the last couple years. In fact we'll both be manning the Santana booth at NAHBS this year.

I guess the only relevant thing I have to contribute is that the person who designed the layup and oversaw the production of the RCA is considered by many in the industry to be the best. So, it reasons the RCA should be of the highest quality and probably has a better layup than what even the best custom carbon builders are making these days.

exctasy
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by exctasy

Lelandjt wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:18 am
uraqt wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:31 am
The R5CA and the RCA were both designed and built in CA.
I feel like we're saying the same thing. Were you under the impression that Cervelo has a facility in Orange County? I guess I don't know how much of the deal between Cervelo and this American composites company is public knowledge so I don't want to say anything that's not already out there. My source is the owner and head engineer of this company. The company I work for, Santana Tandems, is currently contracting him to design and build a frame for us so I've worked and ridden with him a lot the last couple years. In fact we'll both be manning the Santana booth at NAHBS this year.

I guess the only relevant thing I have to contribute is that the person who designed the layup and oversaw the production of the RCA is considered by many in the industry to be the best. So, it reasons the RCA should be of the highest quality and probably has a better layup than what even the best custom carbon builders are making these days.
sounds like the RCA is of the highest quality of cervelo bikes

fromtrektocolnago
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by fromtrektocolnago

not a fan of cervelo. lots of good custom bikes out there. how it will ride, will depend on the builder and what is spec'd out. but that's just me.
this is your bike. if you are 100% happy with cervelo why solve a problem you don't have. you have a known entity you love. again, i wouldn't do cervelo, but if it works for you , then the answer should be obvious.

cervelo has one design however. the rear triangle is virtually identical across sizes. that's always bothered me. i don't think a 48 cm and a 57 cm bike should be designed the same
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Stueys
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by Stueys

RyanH wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:00 am
Stueys wrote:Yeah, short chainstays make it feel punchy on the climbs but don’t help it feel planted on the way down. I love technical twisty descents, long straights aren’t great though.
This is the tradeoff you have to decide. After trying many bikes, I realized that I would much rather have a nimble descending bike on tight technical descents while giving up some of the planted feeling on sweeping turns. A long chainstay, super planted bike feels like ass down a descent like Tuna Canyon in Santa Monica.
Agreed, you reach a point where you need to start making tradeoffs. Personally I'd be willing to trade a bit of nimbleness for more high speed planted feeling, I don't think the nimbleness will cost me time (but it will cost a bit of fun) where the high speed stuff is.

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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

Lelandjt wrote:
ultimobici wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:41 pm
Lelandjt wrote:
ultimobici wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:00 am
Really? I’ve seen several bare RCa frames close up and they aren’t anything special in the quality stakes compared to top custom builders.

Just a Cervelo that is less likely to crack! ;)


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It's the layup that makes it special.
Yeah, right!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Why don't you believe me? Why doesn't this seem obvious when it's common knowledge that Cervelo contracted an American composites company to design a layup and build a version of their existing bike that was better than they could design or have built in Asia? This is the guy that MANY bike companies turn to when they wan the best layup for their project.
So you are discounting all the bespoke builders in Europe, The USA, Canada & Australia? Bertoletti, Sarto, Argonaut, Parlee, Time, Calfee, Crumpton, De Anima, Exept all exceptional and still building. Cervelo had to outsource to a person no one has heard of!


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Lelandjt
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by Lelandjt

ultimobici wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:27 pm
Lelandjt wrote:
ultimobici wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:41 pm
Lelandjt wrote: It's the layup that makes it special.
Yeah, right!


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Why don't you believe me? Why doesn't this seem obvious when it's common knowledge that Cervelo contracted an American composites company to design a layup and build a version of their existing bike that was better than they could design or have built in Asia? This is the guy that MANY bike companies turn to when they wan the best layup for their project.
So you are discounting all the bespoke builders in Europe, The USA, Canada & Australia? Bertoletti, Sarto, Argonaut, Parlee, Time, Calfee, Crumpton, De Anima, Exept all exceptional and still building. Cervelo had to outsource to a person no one has heard of!


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I'm not enough of an expert to critique their work but I get the impression that there's a lot of knowledge and experience behind the best way to arrange carbon in a mold. Other people who understand all this better than me (the engineers at bike companies) turn to this guy when they're having a problem or just want the best.
Just to be clear, plenty of people have heard of him, just not consumers. You may be familiar with the Atlanta Olympics GT Superbike? He did the layup. I know of plenty other projects he's done for bike companies but not sure I should say.

And the only things the RCA has in common with other Cervelos is the mold and decals.

TiCass
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Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:13 pm

by TiCass

And the only things the RCA has in common with other Cervelos is the mold and decals.
Not really, the idea was always to trickle down the R5Ca / Rca tech into the production model. That was their marketing angle for about 3-4 years.

Seedster
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by Seedster

In your case, it sounds like the RCA is the best option for you based on your affinity for the R5. If you were to go custom, I would go with the Sarto Seta or Asola.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

My recollection of RCa development somewhat corroborates what Lejandt is saying, at least in principle. It was kind of like a “Skunkworks” effort that you’d read about as a case study in a university business class. Small group of people tasked solely with the development of some special frame in a locale far away from and without the distractions of all the daily rigors of regular life back in the cold hinterland of the Canadian wilderness. I remember reading about what sounded like practically working out of a garage at some guys house (not saying that’s what it was but that’s sort of how they made it sound). They were able to experiment with a whole bunch of different ideas quickly versus the usual process of slow methodical product development. So for sure special layups were tried out. And even the paint was special. The seat tube was slack to enable a zero offset seatpost (which saved a couple grams) but still positioned the rider where an offset seatpost would with a more normal seattube angle. So no, the molds were not shared either. I still never much cared for Cervelo’s geometry, but it was an interesting project to read about. Super light frame for its time and still is today I guess. But I still think you need to be a superlight rider to ride a superlight frame. And that’s not me I’m afraid.
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by Weenie


tabl10s
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by tabl10s

Calnago wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:39 am
My recollection of RCa development somewhat corroborates what Lejandt is saying, at least in principle. It was kind of like a “Skunkworks” effort that you’d read about as a case study in a university business class. Small group of people tasked solely with the development of some special frame in a locale far away from and without the distractions of all the daily rigors of regular life back in the cold hinterland of the Canadian wilderness. I remember reading about what sounded like practically working out of a garage at some guys house (not saying that’s what it was but that’s sort of how they made it sound). They were able to experiment with a whole bunch of different ideas quickly versus the usual process of slow methodical product development. So for sure special layups were tried out. And even the paint was special. The seat tube was slack to enable a zero offset seatpost (which saved a couple grams) but still positioned the rider where an offset seatpost would with a more normal seattube angle. So no, the molds were not shared either. I still never much cared for Cervelo’s geometry, but it was an interesting project to read about. Super light frame for its time and still is today I guess. But I still think you need to be a superlight rider to ride a superlight frame. And that’s not me I’m afraid.
2016 Orbea Orca OMR: 15.0lbs/6.804kg...😐 | 2016 Rca: 11.07lbs/5.048kg...😭 | 2015 Pinarello F8: 13.04lbs/5.915kg...😩 | 2018 S-Works SL6: 12.04/5.625kg... 😥

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