Time Xpro 12 vs Shimano Dura Ace pedals

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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Juanmoretime
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by Juanmoretime

I had a set of the Xpresso 12's for 5 years. Went thru 3 sets of bearings and numerious cleats. Even thou they are heavier went to the Dura Ace 9100 and after a single season, love them. Still spin smoothly and no clicking like I had on the Xpresso 12's. I did try the Look titanium blades before going to the Dura Ace but found they creaked too and they almost never would be pedal side up and frequently had to flip them to get into my pedal. So far, Dura Ace wins!
RESIDENT GRUMPY OLD MAN.

by Weenie


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TonyM
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by TonyM

Time if the float is important to you (and to your knees...)

Otherwise DA is fine.

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kgt
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by kgt

+1
TIME's iclic is awesome too IME

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Calnago
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by Calnago

I have two sets of shoes... one for Time pedals and one for Shimano... got tired of jumping on different bikes for test rides after working on them and having to change pedals out.

I'll talk about the 3 sets of Time Xpro 10's I've been on lately. In a nutshell... Shimano is far more durable, the bearings are exceptional, and probably most of all, the cleats are awesome because they last a good long time and they are the most walkable cleats I've ever experienced. Time's have great float.

Now, the nitty gritty...
First of all, stack height is the first thing I noticed as it's noticeably higher for the TIME pedals. Low stack height is good, as TIME's marketing spiel acknowledges... "Like the Xpresso, the stack height is low, keeping the cyclist's sole as close to the center of the pedal axle as possible." And if you want to stop there and just go off of that, then fine. But the fact is, the stack height on their pedals is certainly not any lower than on Shimano's (edited here because I don't have and exact figure on Time's spindle to pedal surface stack). I just feel closer to the pedals with my feet on the Shimano system versus the TIME system. Am I? I'm not really sure now, but probably am, just from eyeballing the distance from the cleat surface where it contacts the pedal to the sole of the shoe, but when I'm walking around I for sure feel like I'm walking around on some "lifts" compared to the 9100's, so maybe that's part of it.

Float: If you really like float, then the TIME's are very good. End of story. I ride with Shimano's red fixed cleats, could just as easily ride with the yellow or blues, but I just prefer a perfectly set up fixed cleat. I don't have any weird knee issues etc., and my feet seem to track fairly straight... I just don't even have cause to think about it. It works for me. I don't know if TIME even makes a fixed cleat. But they do float well.

Noise: I've never had a peep or a squeak out of the Shimanos. Can't say the same about the Time's. In fact, over the last two days I've been riding a TIME pedal equipped bike and eliminating every single noise from it. On Friday I thought I had it complete except for one annoying squeak. So on Saturday I did nothing but change the XPRO 10's to some Shimano Ultegras which I have as spares. During the ride I did a climb I like to do when I really want to test for noises eminating from the bike... a 6-12% grade for just shy of a mile. If I can push my 200lbs up that without a creak or squeak or a crack or a slap then I consider it a success. On Friday the pedals were the last remaining sound. On Saturday, with the Shimano's, it was silent... dead silent, so job done. Anyway, yes, cleat/pedal interface can tend to be a little squeaky on the TIME's and I'm never going to resort to spraying down my pedals with some silicone spray or something before each ride to prevent it. It would be far too annoying. It's not terrible, but it wasn't silent, and that's what I strive for.

Walkability: The Shimano cleats are the most walkable cleats I've ever experienced, and it's a big reason I'm on them. The fact they are rock solid, never need maintenance, super well made work so smoothly and perfectly are all just bonuses after that. You may say, well I don't walk on my cleats. Fair enough, but even putting on the shoes with the Time cleats and walking over to my bike to get on it was a very different experience than with the Shimanos, which you can pretty much walk normally in. And when i stopped for some pho yesterday after the ride but before going home, walking on that tiled floor with TIME cleats was shall we say quite the experience compared to the same scenario with the Shimanos. Growing up in Canada I'm used to hockey and ice rinks, but that's the only time I feel like being on skates.

@jlok mentioned that your feet can't go as far forward with the TIME cleats. Or conversely, you could say you can't place the cleats as far rearward as you potentially can with the Shimano. That's true. As long as you can get the cleats where they need to be, then it doesn't matter, but I did notice that I had my TIME cleats jammed back to their max in my Sidis for the same position as I would have with Shimanos in a relatively neutral position... look at the cleat bolts below... no more rearward adjustment left with the TIME, versus the farily neutral position of the Shimanos... so for me and probably most people not an issue, but if you position your cleats fairly far rearward, it's something you may want to consider.
Image

Some random stuff... The Xpro 10's are obviously not the 12's or 15's so they probably behave better than the 10's in this regard but the Xpro 10s' just don't spin very freely. I found myself often looking down to see what position the cleat was at for clipping in, whereas the Shimanos, regardless of whether it's Ultegra or Dura Aces are alwasy in the exact same position. For instance... you will never get a shinano pedal to rest at any other position than this... always ready for a quick clip in...
Image

On the other hand... the Xpro 10 could eaily be positioned to rest in a number of places, as I noticed when my Cat was playing with the pedal one day... First, here's how they are meant to rest... nose up ready to clip in...
Image

But it is easy for them to rest at say, the nose down position...
Image

Or this position... an almost horizontal position, which is the position I most found myself having to correct when clipping in on an actual ride...
Image
With the better bearings of the higher end 10's and 12's this probably isn't so much of an issue.

Ok, so you've got the stack height thing while riding (which is the distance from the center of the pedal axle to the sole of your shoe, then you have "stack height" while walking, which is the distance from cleat footings which you walk on to the sole of your shoe. There's a significantly different feeling walking on the Shimano cleats versus the TIME's, and I much prefer the Shimano's in this regard...
Shimano...
Image

Time...
Image

Side by side you can see the chunkiness of TIME cleat versus the Shimano, and yes, it makes a noticeable difference walking around...
Image

Adjustability: Basically you have really just two things to adjust on pedals... the release tension and, for some, the Q-factor. Time has a plastic slotted screw that turns a triangular shaped rod under a carbon blade to give it three levels of tension...
Image
Shimano has a steel screw which adjusts the tension by turning to whatever fine point you like, from low to high, and everything in between. Then there's the Q-Factor. Aside from having a good close Q-factor in the standard length axle, which I use, you can also get the 9100 with a 4mm longer axle if you prefer. With Time, if you want a wider Q-factor, you switch the cleats around Left to right, or right to left, depending on which stance you prefer.

Oh, in that picture above I still see that pointy sharp edge on the Time. Not nearly as bad as on the Expressos but I see no reason to have that sharp of an edge on any bike part really. And Time claims that the nose of their X-Pro pedals are "aerodynamic". Don't even get me started. Lol. I don't think Shimano makes any such claim, but looking at the sleek low profile of the shimano pedal... well... just stop it Cal.

So, there you have it... if you really want a lot of glassy float, then the TIME's are good. Shimano has three levels of movement, from the yellow with the most, to blue with medium to red for fixed. I've used all of them at some point, they all are fine.

[edit]: Damnit, knew I forgot something. You guys and your grams....
Image
And @spartan below brings up a good point about weighing the cleats and mounting hardware as well since in the case of some pedals that’s a significant proportion of the total “system” weight. But in this case I “think” the weights of the Shimano versus Time cleats/hardware is probably pretty close. While I have spare Shimano cleats and hardware lying around, I don't have a spare pair of Time cleats for comparison, and I'm not removing them from my shoes at this stage just to see which cleats are lighter by a couple of grams. The higher end Time pedals however get significantly lighter. The Expressos are crazy light, but apart from cutting up your hands when you held them they also felt very cheap and not very durable.
Last edited by Calnago on Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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spartan
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by spartan

excellent comparison ONLY one important detail real world weights of the pedals+ cleat+mounting bolts.

xpro 10 vs spd sl i beleive the diff is less than 40 gms
Current Rides:

2018 Madone SLR DISC DI2 9XXX
2017 Giant TCR Advanced SL 0 DI2 9150

mattr
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by mattr

Calnago wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:04 pm
First of all, stack height is the first thing I noticed as it's noticeably higher for the TIME pedals. Low stack height is good, as TIME's marketing spiel acknowledges... "Like the Xpresso, the stack height is low, keeping the cyclist's sole as close to the center of the pedal axle as possible." And if you want to stop there and just go off of that, then fine. But the fact is, the stack height on their pedals is 13.5mm compared to 9100's 8 or 8.5mm if I recall correclty. I just feel closer to the pedals with my feet on the Shimano system versus the TIME system, and not surprisingly, it's because I am.
9100 has a stack height of 13.7mm. Xpresso is 13.5mm.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Where’d you get that 13.7mm number from, cuz it’s incorrect.
Last edited by Calnago on Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Alexandrumarian
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by Alexandrumarian

Checked my 9000s, definitly a bit under 9mm. Whole body is ~17mm in diameter.

mattr
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by mattr

Just checked, 8,8mm from pedal axle to top surface of pedal. 13.7 stack (including cleat).

Shame really, the early TBTs i had had a stack (if used with time shoes) of 9,5mm. Look deltas were nearly 2cm....... Time have got WAY worse, the whole look delta concept has got WAY better.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Ok, including cleat. I was talking about the stack height of pedal only in that instance. But in fairness the stack height of the Time pedal itself (at least the XPro 10) seems to be comparable then. It’s when you walk in them that you notice the difference in “walking stack height” which is what I was trying to show in the pics. The cleats feel perfectly fine to ride in, with the nit about them not settling in the same place each time, but the higher end models (which the OP is looking at) with the better internals may not have that issue to the same extent.
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mattr
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by mattr

Yeah, thats not clear, you've muddled pedalling stack, cleat thickness and alsorts up there!

And my first times had a stack of 8.8mm WTF did they do!!!! (they did weigh as much as a small moon though)

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kgt
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by kgt

Calnago 'forgot' to comment on the engagement of TIME vs DA. TIME's iclic, as they call it, is excellent IMO, a really nice 'innovation'.
Maybe Calnago does not like it, I don't know, but it is really one of the main things that makes TIME pedals different from others.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Ok @Kgt... iclic... I didn't forget, and I didn't "not like it". Clipping in was easy, when the pedals were oriented correctly. I'm not sure what you think is so great about it versus Dura Ace. Please tell. I guess I-clic is supposed to leave the back part unengaged when you unclip? So it makes for easier clipping in next time? I don't know... it was not a feature I even noticed to be honest. I clip in just like I do on 9100. What happens if the i-click does clip shut without your cleat in it? How do you "unenage" it then. Now I know what that little drawing in the instructions is all about with a flat screwdriver pointing into the cleat with a line through it.... I guess that means... "Don't do this!"

@Mattr: I'm not sure what your first TIME pedals were... mine were the Time Magnesium Equipe Pro or something, early 90's. Pretty flash being all white, but yeah, boat anchors. And I'll fix the apples/oranges comparison re stack heights, but sitting here staring at the cleats on both shoes... it's easy to see how walking in the Dura Ace would be a whole lot easier. Somewhere in Shimano's tech docs they list the stack as 8.something mm but obviously do not include the cleats, which are quite thin. And I remember measuring them to confirm. I also thought I measured the Time's before (albeit the Expressos), and confirmed the 13.5mm stack as the comparable stack height (not including cleats), but these Xpro's are definitely more in line with the sub 9mm stack height in that regard. Was this an improvement over the Expressos, or are they the same in that regard?
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kgt
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by kgt

Calnago, it is not possible that you did not 'notice' iclic. Please. Iclic's pre-engagement makes clip and unclip way easier (you need to apply way less power) than any other pedal. It is a totally different technology patented by TIME.
BTW I agree that Shimano are more durable with better bearings, no doubt about that. I still prefer TIME for iclic, float, low weight, and looks.

by Weenie


mattr
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by mattr

Yeah, the Equipe Mags were a bit taller than the Titan mags (which is what i had) Greg Lemond signature edition IIRC, after his TDF victory, late 86, early 87 at a guess.
Quite a common upgrade to pop the steel axles into the titan mag bodies, as the Ti axles of the time were a bit bendy. (not an issue for me at 8 stone wet through)

And i'm still rocking Impacts and RXS pedals, so brass cleat cams and almost limitless lifespan (and low stack height) so i've done little other than play with the later models, may upgrade if my finances settle down this year (remortgaging the house on your own puts a big hole in your bank balance!) , i need a new bike as well........ which might be the ideal opportunity to upgrade.

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