Best Groupset in your opinion

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Jugi
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Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:10 am

by Jugi

Mr.Gib wrote: And yet zero issues with Sram (Red) and I ride it at least twice as much as the others. I have yet to kill a Sram shifter and a few of them are seriously old. To top it off, I live in rolling terrain that requires constant shifting. Maybe it's shit, but that shit just works.
I have always tought of SRAM's products having a likeness to an AK-47. Maybe it's not always the most "civilized" tool available, but if you absolutely positively have to...

by Weenie


probertsqbe
Posts: 146
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:27 pm

by probertsqbe

hambini wrote:
octave wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:13 pm
hambini wrote:Mechanically, Shimano equipment has much better manufacturing tolerances than anybody else. Campag is slightly worse. SRAM is really bad.

Hence I would pick the Shimano any day of the week.

this is interesting. can you give details as to where and how shimano has improved tolerances? i currently ride red22 mechanical, and just got a new bike stock with red22 and was considering stripping it and selling it new take-off and trying a different groupset... but hard to find a reason why as i have been happy with the red22 on my other bike. hence my interest in your take on tolerances.


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I make bottom brackets and more recently started to make hubs. As part of this, I measured Shimano, Campag and SRAM to see how much their measurements deviated.

On GXP axles, the 24mm bit can vary by over a millimeter which is, to put it bluntly pi$$ poor manufacturing. The deviation on the gear teeth is not quite as bad but certainly nothing to write home about. Shimano tolerances are very accurate and indicates they understand their manufacturing systems and capability very well. There is very little deviation in Shimano equipment whether it's dura ace or sora.

Campag is no where near as bad as SRAM but not as good as Shimano. Campag stuff has quite a lot of complicated manufacturing processes within it such as machining for hirth joints which is a technically time consuming and therefore costly process.

The problem is the average rider has no way to measure these things so is unaware of them

Hambini
Hambini just picked up on your comment re your development of hubs. I couldn’t see any listed on your website. Are there anymore details you could share or pm me a link?

RocketRacing
Posts: 947
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 am

by RocketRacing

I had sram etap and it exploded and sucked.

Kidding, i prefer it to di2. The simplicity and feel of the paddle shifters is second to none. If i had di2 instead i would program it to shift like etap. Front derailer shift speed was marginally faster on the front however.

I ran the new 105 reciently, and i must be getting lazy/spoiled because i could never go back to mechanical for a 2x road bike. However, i would never bother with electronic for 1x as my sram (apex/gx) and xtr are all great.

MrAnderson
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:04 pm

by MrAnderson

Has to be eTap, so effortless.

2nd Bike has Ultegra 8700 which is heavy but faster than eTap for sure, nowt wrong with it.

eTap feels slow compared to Ultegra.

wpccrunner
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by wpccrunner

Broady wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:49 pm
hambini wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:24 pm
On GXP axles, the 24mm bit can vary by over a millimeter which is, to put it bluntly pi$$ poor manufacturing.
Seriously 1mm? That's crazy.
also agree that's crazy. there is no way they have gxp spindles out in the wild as small as 23mm or large as 25mm, even 23.5-24.5mm is way too much variance to be feasible. granted i do not have an inventory of sram cranks to get a large enough statistical pool of measurements but the cranks would flat out not work with that amount of variation in spindle diameter.

im not doubting your claims, just very curious at this poinbt. what was your sample size to conclude this +1mm variance?

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Calnago
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by Calnago

^I’d agree that I highly doubt SRAM’s spindles can vary in diameter by 1mm. At least not at the bearing location points which is really the only place it matters.
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robertbb
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by robertbb

kgt wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:22 pm
Wise choise RossLB.

IME the best groupsets are mechanical Super Record and mechanical Dura Ace. The best value for money is mechanical Campagnolo Chorus.

Electronic groupsets is another marketing product IMO. In terms of performance they are not superior to a well tuned mechanical groupset. They just look cool and trendy. But according to the posts in our forum the percentage of groupsets malfunctioning must be something like 10 electronic to 1 mechanical.
Not only that, but with a Campy Ultrashift mechanical group you can navigate up and down the cluster just as quickly (if not more so) as electronic. I love the tactile feel... a really nice and crisp "clunk" when it hits the gear - which it does every time when set up right. Chorus every day of the week for a bike regularly riden, Record for that one special bike. "StupidRecord" for dentists.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Best groupset well I really like Shimano Dura ace 7403 and Campagnolo record 10 speed. I think those are my favourites. Dura ace 7700 is wonderful too.

Mavic kits from the 80's is great too. The 851ssc and 840 rd's work really well. The 851 is weight weenie too at 174g.

Suntour superb. Its aptly named.

Shimano golden arrow is pretty neat too. As is old RSX.

Shimano xt of any generation is excellent.

But I am happy on one gear.

Js2
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon May 08, 2017 6:55 pm

by Js2

Dura Ace R9100 Mechanical all the way!

jlok
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Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

hambini wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:24 pm

I make bottom brackets and more recently started to make hubs. As part of this, I measured Shimano, Campag and SRAM to see how much their measurements deviated.

On GXP axles, the 24mm bit can vary by over a millimeter which is, to put it bluntly pi$$ poor manufacturing. The deviation on the gear teeth is not quite as bad but certainly nothing to write home about. Shimano tolerances are very accurate and indicates they understand their manufacturing systems and capability very well. There is very little deviation in Shimano equipment whether it's dura ace or sora.

Campag is no where near as bad as SRAM but not as good as Shimano. Campag stuff has quite a lot of complicated manufacturing processes within it such as machining for hirth joints which is a technically time consuming and therefore costly process.

The problem is the average rider has no way to measure these things so is unaware of them

Hambini
How about SRAM BB30 crankset?
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hambini
Posts: 551
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by hambini

wpccrunner wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:53 pm
Broady wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:49 pm
hambini wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:24 pm
On GXP axles, the 24mm bit can vary by over a millimeter which is, to put it bluntly pi$$ poor manufacturing.
Seriously 1mm? That's crazy.
also agree that's crazy. there is no way they have gxp spindles out in the wild as small as 23mm or large as 25mm, even 23.5-24.5mm is way too much variance to be feasible. granted i do not have an inventory of sram cranks to get a large enough statistical pool of measurements but the cranks would flat out not work with that amount of variation in spindle diameter.

im not doubting your claims, just very curious at this poinbt. what was your sample size to conclude this +1mm variance?
I meant the 1mm length of the 24mm bit on GXP. Diameter does not vary by 1mm but it's still ~0.075mm versus Shimano which is around 0.025mm. Non drive side is fixed so the adjustment is by shims and the take up is on the wave washer.

Sample size is over 20 that I've measured and at least 35 that users have measured (for the length). For the diameter it's only the one's I have measured. I used to ask for this measurement before making BB's. I have since stopped making SRAM GXP BB's
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hambini
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Location: Cologne, Germany

by hambini

probertsqbe wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:24 pm

Hambini just picked up on your comment re your development of hubs. I couldn’t see any listed on your website. Are there anymore details you could share or pm me a link?

One of the developments in material technology is a material called superlight. It's an Aluminium alloy with hexagonal crystalline construction. This is about 50% lighter than normal aluminium and almost all of the tensile strength. I have made a couple of these for test purposes for some of the pro cycling teams I supply.

I do not supply them on the open market yet and the manufacturing process to make them is currently hideously expensive and time-consuming.

Hope that helps

Hambini
Hambini Aeronautical Engineer, Polluting YouTube since 2016 - views expressed are my own...
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Aerodynamic Masterclass in bicycle wheels
I fixed the bottom bracket from hell

ome rodriguez
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by ome rodriguez

True.

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martinkartin
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by martinkartin

I’ve been running DA9170 on my road disc and I’m having an absolute blast. The great thing I love about Di2 is the ability to customize the function of each button. I currently have my configuration to shift up with the right and down with the left for both fd and rd. F1 feels! 😎
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by Weenie


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guyc
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by guyc

For me it's DA - either mechanical or Di2.

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