You sure about these numbers? All 2019 numbers appears to be the same as serie... so!?ryanw wrote: ↑Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:56 pmAll tested at 45kph on Zipp 404s:
2019 Cannondale SystemSix Disc - 203w
2016 Trek Madone - 204w
2016 Specialized Venge ViAS - 204w
2016 Cervelo S5 - 205w
2016 Felt AR FRD - 205w
2019 Cervelo S5 Disc - 206w
2016 Canyon Aeroad - 208w
2019 Specialized Venge Disc - 208w
2016 Giant Propel Advanced SL - 210w
2016 Scott Foil Premium - 211w
2016 BMC Time Machine - 211w
2016 Look 795 - 212w
2019 Trek Madone Disc - 212w
2019 Ridley Noah Fast Disc - 213w
*Tour Aero Bike Tests*
Moderator: robbosmans
Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓ Broad Selection ✓ Worldwide Delivery ✓
www.starbike.com
I've seen this numerous times, German mags favor German brands, US mags favor US brands... Nothing new unfortunately. I therefore take those subjective ratings with a (very big) grain of salt. Only the actually measured data are of some value.
As for the aero data - does anyone who reads those articles thoroughly know how do they account for various frame geometries? For example the 2016 Madone is lower than the 2019 one, thus making a direct comparison more complicated. And that's just those 2 frames...
I wish they would throw in something like an Emonda and a C64 so one could see how much faster an aero bike is in the same table.
- VTR1000SP2
- Posts: 930
- Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:21 pm
They did but that's not what this discussion is about really. Here's that link FYI - https://www.tour-magazin.de/uploads/tx_ ... 5ab73.jpeg
Focus Izalco Max - 4.84kg without pedals
Cervélo Áspero - 8.28kg
Trek Madone SLR Rim - 7.73kg
Standert Triebwerk Disc - 8.47kg
Cervélo Áspero - 8.28kg
Trek Madone SLR Rim - 7.73kg
Standert Triebwerk Disc - 8.47kg
- VTR1000SP2
- Posts: 930
- Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:21 pm
I typed out the S5 summary into Google translate as I was curious about what they said:
With the third generation of the s5, Cervelo takes system integration to a new level. From the front the bike looks extremely clean. The fork sits in front of the head tube and enters the frame with a positive fit. The connection to the handlebar bracket produces a V-shaped stem, which is available in six lengths. Behind the head tube many details are reminiscent of the old S5. The characteristic shape of the seat ear was preserved, including the steep aerostrip and the recess for the front wheel in the down tube. Also, the bottle holder can be mounted on the down tube again in two positions. In the Aero rating, the S5 occupies second place with 206 watts at 45km / h behind the SystemSix. Faster Zipp 404 instead of the standard DT wheels save another three watts. This gives the bike the aerodynamic level of SystemSix. 7.4 kilo is the weight of many professional racers with disc brakes. Very high stiffness values and the stiff handlebar predestine the S5 for Sprinter. The spring comfort at the saddle is barely detectable like with the old model. The comparatively easy integration of the brake lines deserves praise. Quick-release pegs allow for quick wheel changes. A variant with rim brakes does not exist.
With the third generation of the s5, Cervelo takes system integration to a new level. From the front the bike looks extremely clean. The fork sits in front of the head tube and enters the frame with a positive fit. The connection to the handlebar bracket produces a V-shaped stem, which is available in six lengths. Behind the head tube many details are reminiscent of the old S5. The characteristic shape of the seat ear was preserved, including the steep aerostrip and the recess for the front wheel in the down tube. Also, the bottle holder can be mounted on the down tube again in two positions. In the Aero rating, the S5 occupies second place with 206 watts at 45km / h behind the SystemSix. Faster Zipp 404 instead of the standard DT wheels save another three watts. This gives the bike the aerodynamic level of SystemSix. 7.4 kilo is the weight of many professional racers with disc brakes. Very high stiffness values and the stiff handlebar predestine the S5 for Sprinter. The spring comfort at the saddle is barely detectable like with the old model. The comparatively easy integration of the brake lines deserves praise. Quick-release pegs allow for quick wheel changes. A variant with rim brakes does not exist.
Focus Izalco Max - 4.84kg without pedals
Cervélo Áspero - 8.28kg
Trek Madone SLR Rim - 7.73kg
Standert Triebwerk Disc - 8.47kg
Cervélo Áspero - 8.28kg
Trek Madone SLR Rim - 7.73kg
Standert Triebwerk Disc - 8.47kg
if we take the latest translation from the S5 review... that appears not to be the case.. they mention another 3 watts for the S5 which brings it to 203 (same as System6).. so the 206w was with Swiss wheels which can also possilbly mean System6 test with 203 was done with knot64 ? Who knows really and I've never been a fan of their testing to begin with.
2024 BMC TeamMachine R Building
2018 BMC TImeMachine Road
2002 Moots Compact-SL- getting aero look makeover
2019 Parlee Z0XD - "classified"
2023 Pivot E-Vault - completed project, full Xplr package
2018 BMC TImeMachine Road
2002 Moots Compact-SL- getting aero look makeover
2019 Parlee Z0XD - "classified"
2023 Pivot E-Vault - completed project, full Xplr package
That makes much more sense now.spdntrxi wrote: ↑Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:23 amif we take the latest translation from the S5 review... that appears not to be the case.. they mention another 3 watts for the S5 which brings it to 203 (same as System6).. so the 206w was with Swiss wheels which can also possilbly mean System6 test with 203 was done with knot64 ? Who knows really and I've never been a fan of their testing to begin with.
I wonder why they didn't used the S5 DI2 with Enve 5.6. Probably more aero.
excellent can you translate the madone summary.
VTR1000SP2 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:15 amI typed out the S5 summary into Google translate as I was curious about what they said:
With the third generation of the s5, Cervelo takes system integration to a new level. From the front the bike looks extremely clean. The fork sits in front of the head tube and enters the frame with a positive fit. The connection to the handlebar bracket produces a V-shaped stem, which is available in six lengths. Behind the head tube many details are reminiscent of the old S5. The characteristic shape of the seat ear was preserved, including the steep aerostrip and the recess for the front wheel in the down tube. Also, the bottle holder can be mounted on the down tube again in two positions. In the Aero rating, the S5 occupies second place with 206 watts at 45km / h behind the SystemSix. Faster Zipp 404 instead of the standard DT wheels save another three watts. This gives the bike the aerodynamic level of SystemSix. 7.4 kilo is the weight of many professional racers with disc brakes. Very high stiffness values and the stiff handlebar predestine the S5 for Sprinter. The spring comfort at the saddle is barely detectable like with the old model. The comparatively easy integration of the brake lines deserves praise. Quick-release pegs allow for quick wheel changes. A variant with rim brakes does not exist.
Current Rides:
2023 Tarmac SL7 Di2 9270
ex 2019 S-works SL6
ex 2018 Trek Madone SLR Disc
ex 2016 Giant TCRAdvanced Sl
ex 2012 Trek Madone7
2023 Tarmac SL7 Di2 9270
ex 2019 S-works SL6
ex 2018 Trek Madone SLR Disc
ex 2016 Giant TCRAdvanced Sl
ex 2012 Trek Madone7
- VTR1000SP2
- Posts: 930
- Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:21 pm
I just did but I don't think I'm going to have any more time tonight to keep going. Typing this out manually is a bit of a pain but alas, my thirst for knowledge must be quenched.
The new Madone is not faster than its predecessor, which sets its standard. The Aero value of 212 watts could even be interpreted as a step backwards. But according to Trek, the new Madone was not about making the bike faster. Rather, the bike should be better overall. Among other things, the integrated Isospeed suspension was redesigned. Instead, as before in the seat tube, the leaf spring, which separates the seat post from the frame, is now supported in the top tube. The spring rate is adjustable, with the wheel springing better even in the hardest mode than many endurance bikes. Instead of being in two as before, the Madone will in future have only one geometry variant. Many customers found the option more confusing than helpful. The new H1.5 geometry lies between the previous H1 and H2 variants and positions the handlebar slightly higher than the old H1 model. The sitting position is still race-oriented. The road test makes it clear: As before, no bike dominates the balancing act between speed and comfort as well as the Madone. The handlebars, where the stem and the hangars were separated again, are comfortable. Good news for disc skeptics: there is also a variant with rim brakes.
Focus Izalco Max - 4.84kg without pedals
Cervélo Áspero - 8.28kg
Trek Madone SLR Rim - 7.73kg
Standert Triebwerk Disc - 8.47kg
Cervélo Áspero - 8.28kg
Trek Madone SLR Rim - 7.73kg
Standert Triebwerk Disc - 8.47kg
What? Aren't we suppose to look at tretlagersteifigkeit for bb stiffness? I think lenkkopfsteifigkeit is headtube stiffness.VTR1000SP2 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:28 pmIt did badly? Looks to be very stiff at 101Nm, bested by the S5 but with the stiffest Headtube and fairly competitive seatpost flex.
That's right.
As for the test result - does anyone know if the test procedure was the same as last year? Also it's a bit disappointing that they do not publish accuracies, which also makes comparisons between bikes vague at best.
-
- Posts: 616
- Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:00 am
Makes the choice of getting a ViAS vs the new Venge even sweeter.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
-
- Posts: 12456
- Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm
I wouldn’t bet on the 5.6s being more aero than 404 FCs. Remember that 404s are 58mm deep while 5.6s are just 54/63mm deep. Front wheel depth has a much greater influence on aerodynamics than rear wheel depth.
The SystemSix with 23mm tires and 64mm rims definitely has the tire/wheel combination to win aero tests. Perhaps they have the best bar/stem solution too.
spdntrxi wrote: ↑Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:23 amif we take the latest translation from the S5 review... that appears not to be the case.. they mention another 3 watts for the S5 which brings it to 203 (same as System6).. so the 206w was with Swiss wheels which can also possilbly mean System6 test with 203 was done with knot64 ? Who knows really and I've never been a fan of their testing to begin with.
Are your eyes working today?
Faster Zipp 404 instead of the standard DT wheels save another three watts.
The bike was tested on 404s @ 206w. They tested it on the shallower DT Swiss wheels and it was 3w slower, 209w.
SL8 S-Works Project Black - 6.29kg
IG: RhinosWorkshop
IG: RhinosWorkshop
Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓ Broad Selection ✓ Worldwide Delivery ✓
www.starbike.com