Smart trainer or the new Elite Nero (roller)?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
ParisCarbon
Posts: 1402
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Winnipeg Canada

by ParisCarbon

Im really loving my Tacx Neo (3 years old now) and the Tacx TDA software.. Ive always been a computer based training guy though from Computrainer days.. I really like the Real life videos.. I am a beta test member so I get to test the videos before they are released and see all the cool software things they are doing.. there is more to come from them, and some really cool video in test right now... Im also in the middle of Canada and locked on a trainer from October to April so the "entertainment" factor is important to me!

ParisCarbon
Posts: 1402
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Winnipeg Canada

by ParisCarbon

wheelsONfire wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:23 am
Looking at KickR 2018 and Neo 2800 and 2850.
KickR has better price than Neo 2850.
What seems nice with the Elite Nero roller, is the two flywheels instead of one.
Sprinting should be best on Neo as has an option to flex sideways.
Also that cobble rumble feature in the 2850.
But this unit cost an arm and a leg.

I can see the positives in a roller. You work your balance which you won't at a fixed trainer.
However, trainer allows you to slack a bit.
I wish i could call a psychotherapist to get some help on this choice :unbelievable:
Go online with a smart trainer and do a race on one of the software packages available.. believe me there will be no slacking!! Let off when everyone is doing 300+ watts and you get spit out the back really fast, and unfortunately probably not getting back on :(

by Weenie


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wheelsONfire
Posts: 2886
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

Ok, slacking was a mere expression for sitting in the saddle spinning. Talking rollers, my guess is that atleast me, would need to be focused and no way i would let go of that.
As mattr pointed out, falling off and getting a nice peel job!
No, that's not for me.
Thereof, the slightly hard to interpret word "slacking" :wink:
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

ParisCarbon
Posts: 1402
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Winnipeg Canada

by ParisCarbon

wheelsONfire wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:32 am
Ok, slacking was a mere expression for sitting in the saddle spinning. Talking rollers, my guess is that atleast me, would need to be focused and no way i would let go of that.
As mattr pointed out, falling off and getting a nice peel job!
No, that's not for me.
Thereof, the slightly hard to interpret word "slacking" :wink:
LOL Yeah.. I hear ya.. in some ways the online racing is a bad thing.. you can get carried away with it very easily.. I have a friend who just got into it and his last email to me was I literally need to start baking off or Im gonna be fried before next season even starts!!

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4027
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

ParisCarbon wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:27 am

Go online with a smart trainer and do a race on one of the software packages available.. believe me there will be no slacking!! Let off when everyone is doing 300+ watts and you get spit out the back really fast, and unfortunately probably not getting back on :(
I'll add to this. There currently doesn't exist a smart roller than can put out enough resistance for something like a Zwift "A" race bunch sprint. The Elite Nero for example tops out at 760W and even my 62kg body can peak >1200W and hold 900W for 15s.

If you want to train indoors, use a direct drive smart trainer. If you want some side-to-side movement, get the Kinetic R1 or maybe the Neo/Neo 2. If you want something to warm-up before races, get the Neo 2 or Feedback Sports Omnium. If you ride track a lot, need to practice smooth, fast pedaling and need something to stay warm on between heats, get rollers. If you really want rollers for spinning indoors, I'm not going to stop you.

Orbital
Posts: 160
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:52 am
Location: Pitt Meadows, BC

by Orbital

I mainly use the rollers as a supplement. We can typically ride all year round here in Greater Vancouver unless the rare time we get snow. I mainly use the rollers to get going before I play hockey or if I can’t get out because of family obligations. Which seems to be often now that the kids are in hockey and dance a few times a week.....

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wheelbuilder
Posts: 690
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:10 am

by wheelbuilder

I live in Northern California and can ride all year. That said, I find rollers interesting and fun enough to ride them occasionally as a supplement. I could never sit on a turbo trainer for even a short amount of time, and don't find Zwift interesting enough to warrant that level of commitment. Rollers are a blast to ride, require a fair amount of concentration so they keep you from going crazy with boredom, and hone a very smooth stylish pedal stroke. If you want to stay balanced and still you MUST have a smooth stroke. They force you to become a better rider.
Never cheer before you know who is winning

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wheelsONfire
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Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

Some guys have reported problems with the KickR 2018. Rear dropout (130mm) clearance issues!?
They had to file off material from the swing on the KickR.
Anyone here have had that problem?

Lots of other issues to i have noted.
No KickR for me
Last edited by wheelsONfire on Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

mattr
Posts: 4673
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: The Grim North.

by mattr

c60rider wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:01 am
I don't know why this was the case. I bought the elite real e-motion rollers about 5 or 6 years ago now having never ridden rollers in my life. Within 10 mins riding in a hallway with walls either side I was able to ride without touching.
Yeah, thats what i managed this time round with parabolic rollers. Last ones i had weighed ~20 kilos with 5" dia aluminium drums. Sold that for a profit after a couple of weeks ownership. The buyer fell off them a lot as well. As did the guy i bought them from.
c60rider wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:01 am
Maybe the fact that they're on bungie type cords to accommodate fore-aft movement helps but I've never looked back since and would only ever use rollers again. The only thing I can't do is sprint out of the saddle on them but it's possible to knock out 600 plus watts (measured from my power meter) so that's plenty enough for any indoor session.
Yup, my current ones are the Tacx Galaxia, with the rocking mechanism. Very good.
c60rider wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:01 am
I would never buy any trainer that my bike is fixed to as my concentration doesn't need to be up there to ride on it and subsequently becomes boring very quickly. Rollers with resistance on them are brilliant in my opinion so I would always recommend using those. But they might not suit everyone.
Which is why i like the Neo, movement and interaction. Not boring.

GONE4ARIDE
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri May 30, 2008 2:05 am

by GONE4ARIDE

wheelsONfire wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:24 pm
Some guys have reported problems with the KickR 2018. Rear dropout (130mm) clearance issues!?
They had to file off material from the swing on the KickR.
Anyone here have had that problem?

Lots of other issues to i have noted.
No KickR for me
The issue with the initial production run of 2018 Kickr and Kickr Core is a mis-sized key/keyway in one of the belt pulley wheels. Wahoo has a fix for the issue and is taking care of those who are impacted.

Early teething problems with new smart trainers has been an issue with most of the brands. With the Tacx Neo there were early issues with grinding noises which were the result of magnets coming loose inside the unit. The Cycleops Hammer also had its issues.

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wheelsONfire
Posts: 2886
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

Question is how you know, with such a new trainer as KickR 2018, that you won't get a version with "issues"?

Just now, i noticed Bkool Smart Air

https://store.bkool.com/en/97-bkool-sma ... lator.html

http://static.bkool.com/static/manuals/ ... 1542898008
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4027
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Namely the Hammer has a dirty sounding belt after you put in a lot of miles. Amusingly, the gritty sounds have mostly gone away after putting in even more time. It also overshoots massively on sprint power. It barely has enough clearance for my Ultegra rear derailleur on the biggest cog. It also has a very loose power barrel socket.

Previous issues that have mostly been corrected in software are resistance change lag and power “troughs” when you ease up after big sprints (flywheel speed related.)

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4027
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

wheelsONfire wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:57 pm
Question is how you know, with such a new trainer as KickR 2018, that you won't get a version with "issues"?
They have been selling out pretty much everywhere in the US. Clever Training and REI have had it in backorder and are receiving a new shipment this week. If you do get one with issues, Wahoo will replace it.

GothicCastle
Posts: 233
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 1:52 am

by GothicCastle

If you don’t have a trainer at all, and really want to train seriously indoors, a direct drive smart trainer is the thing to get. Wahoo’s Kickr Core is a good deal, and I really like my Neo.

If you won’t be doing structured training, or just want a set, rollers are great. I also have a set of rollers, but only ride them a few times a week during the winter. They are great for maintaining handling skills and cadence work.

Those Elite rollers are a bit expensive. At that price, you should also consider TruTrainer rollers. With the flywheel, they are really smooth.

by Weenie


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dj97223
Posts: 700
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:27 pm

by dj97223

I had the mis-sized key issue on the Kickr 2018. Wahoo took care of it promptly. Wahoo offered a DIY repair kit or a full replacement. I opted for the former and it was a pretty easy fix for someone with moderate mechanical skills. Wahoo also offered a gift certificate for my inconvenience. Great service. :thumbup:
“If you save your breath I feel a man like you can manage it. And if you don't manage it, you'll die. Only slowly, very slowly, old friend.”

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