Campagnolo Potenza vs Shimano R7000/R8000

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
flying
Posts: 1933
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:16 am

by flying

Just curious for some input here.

There really is precious little written from end users of the newer Potenza

I am about to build a simple replacement bike
I am no longer interested in the bleeding edge nor the lightest
(I know blasphemy on WW but been there...done that...older now & just ride....lots :D )

So I am basically looking at Potenza vs R7000 because
I add R8000 but truthfully not much of a difference now it seems between
105/ultegra & to be honest the color of ultegra is not great. Not really black
more like a off shade of green...at least the 6800 I have on one bike is to my eyes
Also I never cared for the fake chrome trim on the ultegra shift levers

So with the Black Friday sales I noticed Potenza has some really good pricing &
includes a BB (PF30) I can use so prices have become quite similar

I have not had a Campy group since years ago Chorus but I know the differences in
shift feel etc. I can live with either

Weights now between 3 groups almost negligible IMO
R7000-2489gr $466

Potenza-2413gr $583-$612

R8000-2315gr $660

Prices also close when I consider the BB money saved in Potenza group

All that aside....Any feedback appreciated from current Potenza/R7000-8000 users
Or what others are thinking if considering these same groups.

by Weenie


TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4191
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

If only Potenza had Ultra-Shift and not Power-Shift, it might make more sense. If you're thinking the price jump from R7000 to R8000 isn't worth it, I'm not sure how Potenza is even on the radar other than if you like the aesthetics.

flying
Posts: 1933
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:16 am

by flying

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:20 am
If only Potenza had Ultra-Shift and not Power-Shift, it might make more sense. If you're thinking the price jump from R7000 to R8000 isn't worth it, I'm not sure how Potenza is even on the radar other than if you like the aesthetics.
Thanks about the Ultra vs power shift..Now Potenza has the drooped thumb tab so is the only complaint a single gear drop per click?
If so that is not a prob for me. The old Chorus I had was the same & I could snap multi downshifts plenty quick.

As for the R7000 vs R8000 it is not about price for me...It is about what is gained other than a small weight savings between the two. Then to that yes I also think as I said the R7000 color is better more uniform

Do you have any of these groups? Do you think the R8000 offers a large mech improvement over the R7000?
Would like to hear your thoughts

Thanks

moonoi
Posts: 571
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:04 pm
Location: Earth

by moonoi

I replaced 105 with Potenza on my training bike (Bianchi Intenso) earlier this year, since I was at the time also running SR on my other bike.

Personally I find it to be superior to Ultegra and I haven't found the fact it is powershift rather than ultrashift to be an issue in the real world. The main difference is the feel of the levers, Potenza has a nice positive shift, rather than the soft/mushy feeling from 105/Ultegra, and the hood shapes are more comfortable to me. If you like that nice positive engagement on each shift, you'll be very happy. Also in my case I've found it needs less maintenance to keep it tuned up.

flying
Posts: 1933
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:16 am

by flying

moonoi wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:55 am
I replaced 105 with Potenza on my training bike (Bianchi Intenso) earlier this year, since I was at the time also running SR on my other bike.

Personally I find it to be superior to Ultegra and I haven't found the fact it is powershift rather than ultrashift to be an issue in the real world. The main difference is the feel of the levers, Potenza has a nice positive shift, rather than the soft/mushy feeling from 105/Ultegra, and the hood shapes are more comfortable to me. If you like that nice positive engagement on each shift, you'll be very happy. Also in my case I've found it needs less maintenance to keep it tuned up.


Thanks for that info :thumbup:

I do recall the very solid shift on the Chorus too compared to the lighter Shimano type.

istigatrice
Posts: 822
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 8:32 am
Location: Australia

by istigatrice

I originally wasn't a fan of campy power shift, but it really isn't that bad on Potenza. They've dropped the thumb button ala EPS and it's actually more ergonomic than ultra-shift IMO. I agree that it sucks if you're getting pre 2015 powershift, but Potenza isn't pre 2015 and its a really awesome group. I wouldn't sweat the ultrashift v powershift issue in the current catalogue, just think of it as a way of making the Potenza shifters lighter and cheaper to be competitive with Ultegra on weight and price. The powershift mechanism should be more durable too, most ultra-shift levers need a rebuild after 5 or so years but I haven't seen the same with powershift (though if you do wear one down (10+ years) you'll need to replace rather than repair it). However, this far exceeds my experience with Shimano mechanical levers (usually bin them every 2-3 years).

The only reason why I would consider r8000 would be for wheel compatibility (the campy cassette is different to a Shimano one despite what people try to tell you - as a neutral spare to get you to the finish line it's fine, but I wouldn't start a ride with the wrong cassette), and/or if its cheaper overall. To me the r8000/r7000 shifters make zero sense with the tight angles for the shift cable, and I have issues with cables snapping at the head. It is more readily available at bike shops though.

I don't have any data to back it up, but I'd put money on Campy stuff being made to higher tolerances than Shimano stuff, if you care about that sort of thing. If you're getting a new groupset every product cycle it's a moot point.
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flying
Posts: 1933
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:16 am

by flying

istigatrice wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:22 am
I wouldn't sweat the ultrashift v powershift issue in the current catalogue,
However, this far exceeds my experience with Shimano mechanical levers (usually bin them every 2-3 years).

The only reason why I would consider r8000 would be for wheel compatibility (the campy cassette is different to a Shimano one despite what people try to tell you - as a neutral spare to get you to the finish line it's fine, but I wouldn't start a ride with the wrong cassette), and/or if its cheaper overall. To me the r8000/r7000 shifters make zero sense with the tight angles for the shift cable, and I have issues with cables snapping at the head. It is more readily available at bike shops though.

I don't have any data to back it up, but I'd put money on Campy stuff being made to higher tolerances than Shimano stuff, if you care about that sort of thing. If you're getting a new groupset every product cycle it's a moot point.

Thanks & I agree on what you mention
Trimmed post a bit to highlight
Having had Campy for many years then Shimano for a few years I do agree at least from what Ive
had the durability/quality/finish seemed better on Campy
I am very good about maintenance & do all my own work/building so none really breakdown on me but it seems
the Shimano stuff just shows more wear & easily scars on my bike

Funny you mention wheels/cassette compatibility because my fav wheels are Campy C17 Zondas
Just bought another set on sale two days ago. Ordered Shimano thinking I would go that route again :noidea:
But no problem as I can buy the campy freehub body for 68...not too bad as I get the 11-32 cassette with Potenza
if I buy this group & I know that is a pricey cassette

That angle of the new R7-8000 dérailleur cable entry puzzled me too looking at it. I see they include
a hyper flexible outer for that run & imagine it needs it...but why eh?

Thanks for the input :thumbup:

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vejnemojnen
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Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:11 pm

by vejnemojnen

As I remember, post-2015 powershift levers has updated integrals to overcome the durability issue of earlier levers (ie.: different material used). I like the feel and shape of PS, and you even have the advantage of not shifting "accidentally" more cogs on rough terrain-roads-chipped asphalt.

I personally love the potenza-style crankarms as well. Though it's pity that the silver ergos do not feature alloy-silver shifter paddles, rather, black plastic. I like potenza, the SILVER version, even more with "youngtimer" (ie.: 2006-2010) carbon frames. Just looks more refreshing than black or fake-carbon. :welcome:

All groups work, all do their job, they just different. Matter of personal taste...

if after best performance, I'd say Ultegra
If on a tight budget, 105 (was around 385euros on wiggle few weeks ago)
If prefer campag, just pick potenza. Btw, nowadays 11spd campag cassettes are pretty well priced on ribblecycles..

eventually you'd use chorus11 chain on every forementioned set though.. :thumbup:

2lo8
Posts: 539
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:32 am

by 2lo8

For ultrashift, the button position is not good, but offset by the mutlishift capability. Frankly, the multishift function isn't that useful and I've accidentally overshifted almost as many times as I meant to double/triple shift. New powershift puts the lever in a much better position.
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flying
Posts: 1933
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:16 am

by flying

vejnemojnen wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:07 am
As I remember, post-2015 powershift levers has updated integrals to overcome the durability issue of earlier levers (ie.: different material used). I like the feel and shape of PS, and you even have the advantage of not shifting "accidentally" more cogs on rough terrain-roads-chipped asphalt.

I personally love the potenza-style crankarms as well. Though it's pity that the silver ergos do not feature alloy-silver shifter paddles, rather, black plastic. I like potenza, the SILVER version, even more with "youngtimer" (ie.: 2006-2010) carbon frames. Just looks more refreshing than black or fake-carbon. :welcome:

All groups work, all do their job, they just different. Matter of personal taste...

if after best performance, I'd say Ultegra
If on a tight budget, 105 (was around 385euros on wiggle few weeks ago)
If prefer campag, just pick potenza. Btw, nowadays 11spd campag cassettes are pretty well priced on ribblecycles..

eventually you'd use chorus11 chain on every forementioned set though.. :thumbup:
You make some good points & as you said multi gear changes often need a adjustment after overshooting
what you needed

I am also pretty impressed with the look of the cranks as well as the finish
looks good. (at least from high res photo)

Lastly as you say all the groups work quite well these days :thumbup:

Whats this about Chorus Chains? I have not kept up with this info :D
Are they just all around nicer functioning?

Thanks for your input!

flying
Posts: 1933
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:16 am

by flying

2lo8 wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:42 am
For ultrashift, the button position is not good, but offset by the mutlishift capability. Frankly, the multishift function isn't that useful and I've accidentally overshifted almost as many times as I meant to double/triple shift. New powershift puts the lever in a much better position.
I had the very much older Chorus around 2005
It had the older flat button & I dont think it had multi dn shifting
But was never a problem to rapidly click dn a few.

Like you I have accidentally overshifted on my 6800
But also not a real big deal

I guess we are lucky these days to be spoiled for choices
& at reasonable prices if you dont need to be on the bleeding edge
Which I dont :wink:

Thanks!

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vejnemojnen
Posts: 407
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:11 pm

by vejnemojnen

Oh, the "issue" with chorus chains, that ribble distributes them for 22 euros& free shipping on orders after a certain budget. And they are incredibly wearproof-durable. Basically the best for budget option, if you are within EU.

flying
Posts: 1933
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:16 am

by flying

vejnemojnen wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:11 am
Oh, the "issue" with chorus chains, that ribble distributes them for 22 euros& free shipping on orders after a certain budget. And they are incredibly wearproof-durable. Basically the best for budget option, if you are within EU.
Good to know thanks!

I did end up grabbing a Potenza group from Merlins Black Friday sale.
Seemed such a great deal especially with the BB I needed. I also wanted to
see how Campy felt again + I do like the overall look of the group best of the 3 base groups mentioned

Thanks for the replies guys :beerchug:

Karvalo
Posts: 737
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

moonoi wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:55 am
I replaced 105 with Potenza on my training bike (Bianchi Intenso) earlier this year, since I was at the time also running SR on my other bike.

Personally I find it to be superior to Ultegra and I haven't found the fact it is powershift rather than ultrashift to be an issue in the real world. The main difference is the feel of the levers, Potenza has a nice positive shift, rather than the soft/mushy feeling from 105/Ultegra, and the hood shapes are more comfortable to me. If you like that nice positive engagement on each shift, you'll be very happy. Also in my case I've found it needs less maintenance to keep it tuned up.
I'm assuming you're comparing the Potenza shift feel with previous generations of 105 and Ultegra?

The new Shimano design (9100/8000/7000) is a far more definite shift click than what came before. A definite change in design emphasis from Shimano from smooth to positive. I used to prefer Campagnolo for that exact reason, but now I think Shimano has it nailed.

morrisond
Posts: 946
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:34 pm

by morrisond

flying wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:47 pm
vejnemojnen wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:11 am
Oh, the "issue" with chorus chains, that ribble distributes them for 22 euros& free shipping on orders after a certain budget. And they are incredibly wearproof-durable. Basically the best for budget option, if you are within EU.
Good to know thanks!

I did end up grabbing a Potenza group from Merlins Black Friday sale.
Seemed such a great deal especially with the BB I needed. I also wanted to
see how Campy felt again + I do like the overall look of the group best of the 3 base groups mentioned

Thanks for the replies guys :beerchug:
I'm glad you got it! It's a great group - I've running Potenza HO on my Gravel bike and I really like the Ergo's - as many have said the 1 click vs multi shifting is a non-event - it's basically no difference than EPS in speed and you get what gear you want - not like 11 sp SR which can overshift - in fact - I sold my EPS group based on how good Potenza is - purely based on the Ergonomics and I'm happy Campy has moved more this way with 12sp mech.

It's not materially heavier (about 100grams I believe) than 12sp Record - and should be more durable as a gravel group if you drop your bike (Metal Cranks and lever blades - theoretically more abuse tolerant RD).

HO has the same Master Cylinders and Calipers as SR 11sp and 12sp - if you want better bearings - spend about $100-150 and swap in SR Pulleys and crank bearings!

In fact I saw that Merlin deal and may end up picking up another Potenza group myself for an a Rim braked Steel frame I have hanging on the wall.

Have fun!

by Weenie


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