Textured brake tracks

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
Phill P
Posts: 1870
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:10 am
Location: Nambucca, NSW, Australia
Contact:

by Phill P

What is everybodies experience with textured brake tracks?
I'm talking about the laser engraved brake tracks on new ZIPP rims, and the I believe modeled in brake tracks on new ENVE rims

We use laser engraving on TUFF rims, and it definately improves braking power specially in the wet.
Testing showed that shimano carbon rim brake pads are still waaaaaay too hard and you really need to use very soft brake pads.

What are people finding for rim/pad durability and braking power like on some of these other new rims compared to older smooth surface rims?
Technical Director at www.TUFFcycle.com

BdaGhisallo
Posts: 2332
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:38 pm

by BdaGhisallo

I have Enve rims with the Gen 2 textured brake track after previously owning Enves with the Gen 1 smooth track.

There is no comparison. The Gen 1 Enves were downright terrifying in the wet. The Gen 2 Enves just plain stop well no matter the conditions. In my thirty years of riding the only rim brake action that was better than the Enve textured brake track was the old Mavic Ceramic coated rims from the late 1990s (back when Mavic knew how to apply the ceramic so that it didn't flake off - a skill they seemingly lost) with Swissstop Green pads.

I have no fear of riding in the rain with carbon rims since I got the Enves with the textured brake tracks.

I do have some Shimano 9100 carbon road wheels but I have yet to ride them in the wet so can't comment on them.

by Weenie


Imaking20
Posts: 2050
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:19 am

by Imaking20

I found the initial bite of the Enve gen 2 to be very impressive but the awful braking noise and accelerated pad wear was not for me.

The laser etched surface on the likes of new Bontrager and FSE is my benchmark. Quiet and outstanding braking power. Less initial bite than Enve but absolute power is indistinguishable.

I think wet weather comparisons are stupid though.. I've never ridden ANY braking surface in the wet and thought "wow, this is great! I'd love to do this more often!"
Current:
Acid Minty

Retired:
Wilier Wonka | The Dentist | The Bucket List | Specialissima | Evo | T2 | Blue | Project C6.0 | Felt AR FRD | Colnago C59 | S-Works Tarmac SL4| S-Works Venge | Wilier Cento1 SL | Tarmac SL2

BdaGhisallo
Posts: 2332
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:38 pm

by BdaGhisallo

Imaking20 wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:41 pm
I found the initial bite of the Enve gen 2 to be very impressive but the awful braking noise and accelerated pad wear was not for me.

The laser etched surface on the likes of new Bontrager and FSE is my benchmark. Quiet and outstanding braking power. Less initial bite than Enve but absolute power is indistinguishable.

I think wet weather comparisons are stupid though.. I've never ridden ANY braking surface in the wet and thought "wow, this is great! I'd love to do this more often!"
I agree with you on wanting to ride in the rain more often due to equipment choices but if I am caught in the rain I want to know that I am going to be able to stop and stop quickly if the need arises.

Interesting thoughts on the Bontrager. Is it that much better than others in the wet? I have run my finger over the rims and the brake track didn't feel as rough as I was expecting it to so I was doubting its efficacy in the wet.

Pinguin
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:28 pm

by Pinguin

Phill P wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:01 am
What is everybodies experience with textured brake tracks?
I'm talking about the laser engraved brake tracks on new ZIPP rims, and the I believe modeled in brake tracks on new ENVE rims

We use laser engraving on TUFF rims, and it definately improves braking power specially in the wet.
Testing showed that shimano carbon rim brake pads are still waaaaaay too hard and you really need to use very soft brake pads.

What are people finding for rim/pad durability and braking power like on some of these other new rims compared to older smooth surface

Pinguin
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:28 pm

by Pinguin

Hello Phill
Which Pads do you recommend on your new Rims with Texture?
Is there also Graphene in the Rims?
I think Texture is the next big thing in Carbonrims and Lightbicycle,Btlos,Farsport...sells them
Improvements i think are in the wet but the Pads wear much faster and Bracking could be a loud noise

alcatraz
Posts: 2294
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

I'd be concerned with the durability of the brake track. I've only recently seen a chinese rim that looks promising enough to try.

I'd use as soft pads as possible, to preserve the rim. Cheap cork pads for dry season and something like barradine blue for wet. If I were to go racing or touring in potential rain I might put some more abraisive pads like carbstop, for safety.

/a
Attachments
1539915454715.jpg

User avatar
kavitator
Posts: 1181
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:07 pm
Location: Slovenia---that forest land

by kavitator

this will be loud :|

kode54
Posts: 1640
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 9:39 pm

by kode54

Enve supplies 2 sets of brake pads. the first set wears out really fast and it will bed in and smooth out the rough surface. once you're on the second set of pads...it works very well and the noise lessens.
- Factor 02 Disc + DA9170 + Enve 4.5AR CK CL hubs
- Moots Vamoots Disc RSL Titanium + DA9170 + Enve 3.4AR CK CL hubs
- Parlee Altum + DA9150 + Enve SES 4.5 Ene carbon hubs
- Argonaut Spacebike 2.0 + DA9170 + Enve SES 5.6 DT Swiss 240 CL hubs

BdaGhisallo
Posts: 2332
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:38 pm

by BdaGhisallo

kode54 wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:51 am
Enve supplies 2 sets of brake pads. the first set wears out really fast and it will bed in and smooth out the rough surface. once you're on the second set of pads...it works very well and the noise lessens.
Can you expand on this? I have never heard of this before. Enve does supply two types of pads - black and grey. The grey is intended for the older smooth brake tracked rims and the harder black compound for the newer rims with the textured brake track. You are not supposed to mix and match.

User avatar
mpulsiv
Posts: 1312
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:17 pm

by mpulsiv

kavitator wrote:this will be loud :|
Aren’t all textured brake track exhibit noise? Some are annoyingly loud.
Wasn’t the sole purpose of textured brake track is to improve grip in foul-weather?
Racing is a three-dimensional high-speed chess game, involving hundreds of pieces on the board.

:arrow: CBA = Chronic Bike Addiction
:arrow: OCD = Obsessive Cycling Disorder

alcatraz
Posts: 2294
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

The noise is the least important problem. How about staying alive in the rain? How about saving valuable seconds during a race. How about getting a really good bite on carbon so your hands don't ache after descending for more than 300m. How about ventilating the brake track better and thus avoiding melting the rim? How about prologing the life of that rim brake frame you have with some top level braking, saving some big bucks putting off that disc brake purchase you've been thinking about?

:D

User avatar
mpulsiv
Posts: 1312
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:17 pm

by mpulsiv

alcatraz wrote:The noise is the least important problem. How about staying alive in the rain? How about saving valuable seconds during a race. How about getting a really good bite on carbon so your hands don't ache after descending for more than 300m. How about ventilating the brake track better and thus avoiding melting the rim? How about prologing the life of that rim brake frame you have with some top level braking, saving some big bucks putting off that disc brake purchase you've been thinking about?

:D
Aren’t these the same reasons why majority of riders are hanging rim brake wheels on their wall and going to disc exclusively? Personally, I have been putting off disc brake purchase because Campagnolo Bora (non-AC3) wheels with Campagnolo brakes perform very well.
Racing is a three-dimensional high-speed chess game, involving hundreds of pieces on the board.

:arrow: CBA = Chronic Bike Addiction
:arrow: OCD = Obsessive Cycling Disorder

alcatraz
Posts: 2294
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

Yeah but some don't really want all the other issues that come with disc brakes. I'm a light guy. I can get away with rim brakes so I won't be making the switch anytime soon.

Most of the rims out there don't have textured brake tracks. Going to disc without trying a -good- brake track set of inexpensive (now coming out on the market) rims is a bit hasty.

I've been in touch with chinese manufacturers a lot lately because I have many heavy friends looking for new wheelsets. I found that in trying to help them find something I help myself at the same time. If a 100kg rider says "these new wheels brake much better than I thought" then I with my 65kg must be extremely pleased if I upgrade my old and heavy carbon rims to the new ultralight new brake track offerings.

It takes me a relatively long time to go through a set of brake pads. I never really get to compare. With heavy friends switching pads relatively often you learn much quicker. :D In the past 12 months I changed my plan completely around.

by Weenie


User avatar
mpulsiv
Posts: 1312
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:17 pm

by mpulsiv

alcatraz wrote:Yeah but some don't really want all the other issues that come with disc brakes. I'm a light guy. I can get away with rim brakes so I won't be making the switch anytime soon.

Most of the rims out there don't have textured brake tracks. Going to disc without trying a -good- brake track set of inexpensive (now coming out on the market) rims is a bit hasty.

I've been in touch with chinese manufacturers a lot lately because I have many heavy friends looking for new wheelsets. I found that in trying to help them find something I help myself at the same time. If a 100kg rider says "these new wheels brake much better than I thought" then I with my 65kg must be extremely pleased if I upgrade my old and heavy carbon rims to the new ultralight new brake track offerings.

It takes me a relatively long time to go through a set of brake pads. I never really get to compare. With heavy friends switching pads relatively often you learn much quicker. :D In the past 12 months I changed my plan completely around.
I’m one of those who sees “0” benefit for a disc on a race bike that doesn’t see foul-weather. Textured brake track is looking for a solution that doesn’t exist. If wet braking is a concern, get budget training bike with disc.
Racing is a three-dimensional high-speed chess game, involving hundreds of pieces on the board.

:arrow: CBA = Chronic Bike Addiction
:arrow: OCD = Obsessive Cycling Disorder

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post