hey weight weenies....have you regretted going disc OR aero?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
joejack951
Posts: 628
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:50 pm
Location: Wilmington, DE

by joejack951

kgt wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:10 pm
Talking about discs... The top road cyclists in the world but do not use them although they can have them anytime they want, perfectly tuned by their mechanics. They just prefer rim brakes.
Do they truly prefer them or are they concerned about rapid wheel swaps?

by Weenie


bedampft
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:04 pm

by bedampft

C36 wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:09 am
First aero applies ALL the time, flat, descents, hills, slow and fast. Opposed to brakes that apply... only when you brake. Physics will show you that the time gain is high when you don’t go that fast, it has been discussed few times here. Now as people mentioned it here the confort and how it rides may not fit everybody. But that’s a different topic.

Then Disc brakes don’t make you any gain in “performance” : they are more confortable, they don’t bring “performance”, descents are all on how fast you turn not how hard you brake, Pro teams ran few tests. Not a recent one but one I discussed in detail with a Telekom advisor / engineer in 2005
- Jan Ullrich initially had issues in the GT descents and in 98 or 99 did different test to improve it, from body position inspired by moto 500 to different rims, brake pads... and it was just that he was entering the turn slower than others... braking 1m after doesn’t count.
- red bull did a road race descending few years ago at the alpes d’huez. You could go on any bike, road, DH, stick 3” thick slicks 200mm discs brakes, rigid or xxx mm suspensions... anything you wanted. Race happened under the rain and who won? Frederic Moncassin, a sprinter, retired for 10 years already, on a road bike with mid 90s brakes... discs don’t make you faster, safer, more relax yes but don’t call this “performance” even less “serious”.
You really are trying, as hard as you can, to not unsterstand my point at all.
Of course aero applies all the time. But it has no realworld advantage for the every day Joey/ most roadcyclists. It is far more importend to have skin tight clothes, aero helmet, shallow bars and an aero position on the bike, then having aero frame and wheels.
Oh, tell my wife she can go downhill faster on her rimbrake bike. She will be rolling on the floor laughing.
Average riders is way more confident in the downhills with disc as they ever where with rimbrakes.

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LeDuke
Posts: 1530
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:39 am
Location: Front Range, CO

by LeDuke

3Pio wrote:I'll compare this to MTB first..


I have Magura Marta SL disc on my MTB Bike (Specialized Epic Marathon Carbon).

If i can pick a MTB bike with XTR V-Brakes and KoolStop brake pads, i'll probably think twice and maybe ill opt for a XTR V-Brake version (which i was using long time before i had to switch to discs).. And this is on MTB.. Why? Heavier, more maintence, more time to adjust them for not rubbing..

Similar as 29" wheels in MTB.. Just marketing thing.. I had a chance to test ride back in time 29" version of EPIC and i prefered mine by big margin (26" ), so decided that i dont need new bike so still have it.. Im not slower then guys with 29" wheelset..

On Road bike, i really dont get the point of discs.. I have three pair of wheelset: Shamal Ultra clinchers, Bora 35 tubs (from Januari 2017), and now even discs becoming more popular i bought in May Bora One 50 wheelset.. Now if im buying a new frame or bike, will definetely be Rim Brakes again (and not because i have wheelset)..Its just more simple, cheaper for maintence, u can fix it in the middle of ride if it's needed, brake pads last so long...Easier to swap wheelset, lighter... Etc, etc..


Im surrounded with mountains so almost every ride have minimum 500 meters climb , average is 1200 meters per ride. That mean downhill as well and plenty steep grades (10-20%) . Also summer time temperatures very often 40 degrees.. I found Carbon Rim wheelset have perfect braking, very good modulation even for mountains area i live.. Also few times had to go down on rain, no problem at all..On Alloy better in wet, same in dry... I really cant see that discs are needed in Road bikes...

About Aero.. Yes, some of Aero bikes look nice.. But again i found that Aero is probably marketing, since the biggest frontal area is ur body and position.. So always funny to see AERO bikes with wide handlebars and plenty of spacers.. Would i buy AERO bike? If i like how it look maybe.. But that decision will be based on look, not because of Aero properties.. For example i really like how Bianchi Oltre XR4 look with Bora 50....


But at the end, if new technlogies will push up ur motivation to ride more, then ok.. Than going discs or aero make sense.. Of course this is just my opinion..
When someone says that they prefer rim brakes and 26” wheels over disc brakes on a modern 29er, everything else they say after that is going to be ignored.

Unless you only ride rail trails, there is no scenario in which the former would feel or actually perform better than the latter. Let me guess: you prefer tubes over tubeless, too?


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3Pio
Posts: 1257
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

Double Post.Please delete
Last edited by 3Pio on Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

3Pio
Posts: 1257
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

LeDuke wrote:
3Pio wrote:I'll compare this to MTB first..


I have Magura Marta SL disc on my MTB Bike (Specialized Epic Marathon Carbon).

If i can pick a MTB bike with XTR V-Brakes and KoolStop brake pads, i'll probably think twice and maybe ill opt for a XTR V-Brake version (which i was using long time before i had to switch to discs).. And this is on MTB.. Why? Heavier, more maintence, more time to adjust them for not rubbing..

Similar as 29" wheels in MTB.. Just marketing thing.. I had a chance to test ride back in time 29" version of EPIC and i prefered mine by big margin (26" ), so decided that i dont need new bike so still have it.. Im not slower then guys with 29" wheelset..

On Road bike, i really dont get the point of discs.. I have three pair of wheelset: Shamal Ultra clinchers, Bora 35 tubs (from Januari 2017), and now even discs becoming more popular i bought in May Bora One 50 wheelset.. Now if im buying a new frame or bike, will definetely be Rim Brakes again (and not because i have wheelset)..Its just more simple, cheaper for maintence, u can fix it in the middle of ride if it's needed, brake pads last so long...Easier to swap wheelset, lighter... Etc, etc..


Im surrounded with mountains so almost every ride have minimum 500 meters climb , average is 1200 meters per ride. That mean downhill as well and plenty steep grades (10-20%) . Also summer time temperatures very often 40 degrees.. I found Carbon Rim wheelset have perfect braking, very good modulation even for mountains area i live.. Also few times had to go down on rain, no problem at all..On Alloy better in wet, same in dry... I really cant see that discs are needed in Road bikes...

About Aero.. Yes, some of Aero bikes look nice.. But again i found that Aero is probably marketing, since the biggest frontal area is ur body and position.. So always funny to see AERO bikes with wide handlebars and plenty of spacers.. Would i buy AERO bike? If i like how it look maybe.. But that decision will be based on look, not because of Aero properties.. For example i really like how Bianchi Oltre XR4 look with Bora 50....


But at the end, if new technlogies will push up ur motivation to ride more, then ok.. Than going discs or aero make sense.. Of course this is just my opinion..
When someone says that they prefer rim brakes and 26” wheels over disc brakes on a modern 29er, everything else they say after that is going to be ignored.

Unless you only ride rail trails, there is no scenario in which the former would feel or actually perform better than the latter. Let me guess: you prefer tubes over tubeless, too?


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On road bike definetely tubular...On MTB tubeless (riding tubeles on MTB since begining of their era..)

To be honest its my pleasure to be ignored from someone who believe just what marketing say.. So dont dissapoint me..Ignore me :)





MoPho
Posts: 534
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:48 pm
Location: NorCal/SoCal

by MoPho

3Pio wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:46 pm
Im surrounded with mountains so almost every ride have minimum 500 meters climb , average is 1200 meters per ride. That mean downhill as well and plenty steep grades (10-20%) . Also summer time temperatures very often 40 degrees.. I found Carbon Rim wheelset have perfect braking, very good modulation even for mountains area i live.. Also few times had to go down on rain, no problem at all..On Alloy better in wet, same in dry... I really cant see that discs are needed in Road bikes...
So by your logic; I got up mountains just fine on my 11kg steel bike (with a 7-speed 12-21 52/39 no less) back in the day, so clearly no one needs a light carbon bike, etc.. Light weight materials and aero is just marketing hype to get people to buy new stuff like 3 sets of wheels :lol:




.

3Pio
Posts: 1257
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

MoPho wrote:
3Pio wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:46 pm
Im surrounded with mountains so almost every ride have minimum 500 meters climb , average is 1200 meters per ride. That mean downhill as well and plenty steep grades (10-20%) . Also summer time temperatures very often 40 degrees.. I found Carbon Rim wheelset have perfect braking, very good modulation even for mountains area i live.. Also few times had to go down on rain, no problem at all..On Alloy better in wet, same in dry... I really cant see that discs are needed in Road bikes...
So by your logic; I got up mountains just fine on my 11kg steel bike (with a 7-speed 12-21 52/39 no less) back in the day, so clearly no one needs a light carbon bike, etc.. Light weight materials and aero is just marketing hype to get people to buy new stuff like 3 sets of wheels Image




.
No.Its not my logic what u are saying..My logic is that Aero frames and Disc on road bikes is marketing.... :)

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MoPho
Posts: 534
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:48 pm
Location: NorCal/SoCal

by MoPho

3Pio wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:55 pm



No.Its not my logic what u are saying..My logic is that Aero frames and Disc on road bikes is marketing.... :)

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So it's only stuff you don't agree with that is marketing then

3Pio
Posts: 1257
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

MoPho wrote:
3Pio wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:55 pm



No.Its not my logic what u are saying..My logic is that Aero frames and Disc on road bikes is marketing.... :)

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So it's only stuff you don't agree with that is marketing then
I dont agree. Does that mean that this ur opinion is also marketing since i dont agree? :)

If u believe in all claims about Aero or Discs go for it..As soon as it make u ride more and not just for show up.. I ride what make me to ride more which is not aero and discs on road bike ...









RocketRacing
Posts: 870
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 am

by RocketRacing

MoPho wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:03 am
Fun Fact #4: Using your wallet to buy "speed" doesn't make you more fit, the bike is only as fast as you are.
So so true, but i need every advantage I can get. 🤣

The reason aero/weight improvements interest me is because I like the idea of going just a little bit faster for the same effort.

dcorn
Posts: 321
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:21 pm
Location: NoVA

by dcorn

3Pio wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:01 pm
MoPho wrote:
3Pio wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:55 pm



No.Its not my logic what u are saying..My logic is that Aero frames and Disc on road bikes is marketing.... :)

Sent from my Mi A2 using Tapatalk

So it's only stuff you don't agree with that is marketing then
I dont agree. Does that mean that this ur opinion is also marketing since i dont agree? :)

If u believe in all claims about Aero or Discs go for it..As soon as it make u ride more and not just for show up.. I ride what make me to ride more which is not aero and discs on road bike ...
Thank you for your permission allowing us to make our own decisions.

This thread is clearly intended to get the thoughts of people that have already bought an aero bike and/or disc brake bike. Those that don't own either one and never intend to can take their "disc brakes and aero stuff on road bikes is stupid marketing gimmickery" comments to one of the million other threads that have been ruined by your kind.

:noidea:


robeambro
Posts: 611
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

I think this discussion has potential, if we don't get derailed in the usual boring bickering.

Not interested in knowing what's superior and why; however, is there somebody who switched to an aero frame and regretted it?

lazypete
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri May 25, 2018 7:00 pm

by lazypete

I moved from an endurance geometry Merida Ride 5000 Disc to a Felt AR with rim brakes / carbon wheels. I loved the new aero bike - just felt (and was) fast, and light. Climbed well and held speed well on the rollers. Generally I like hilly rides / climbing, but with these come the descents. I found rim brakes on carbon, on long Mallorcan type descents just a bit nerve wracking and tiring, not to mention getting pushed around on windy corners etc on an aero frame / 50mm wheels. For that reason alone I've added a non-aero disc bike for that sort of riding - Genesis Zero Disc with 36mm carbon wheels. Much more confident descending, climbs like a dream. 300g heavier and I can run carbon wheels whatever the weather.

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