2018 PRO thread

Questions about bike hire abroad and everything light bike related. No off-topic chat please

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Rondje
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by Rondje

seaneT1 wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:51 pm
Team sky might have the biggest budget, but it has come to my attention that so far, they haven't bought a ready made GT winner (at least not with any succes)...Wiggins, Froome, and now maybe G are all there since the begining and have developed mostly inside the team, they sure do buy very good domestics, but other teams don't fall behind in that department either. Look at Movistar's team right now for goodness sake! Also, looking at the team standings this year, sky isn't even second, while other years they were dominating that classement from start.
With other teams budgets, they can't buy a team Sky has. Nothing wrong with it, the money is gained in a fair mater, but that is just a non-argument. No other team can bring a line-up like that and still be competitive in other GT's and other races. Don't forget that he also had a great team in the Giro where only Poels is brought to help in the TDF now. Movistar put all their eggs in 1 basket, the TDF.
Team Sky only won the team classification in 2017, other years never because just like this year. Domestiques empty themselves and then totally park and start to ride the rest in recovery mode straight away.

by Weenie


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TonyM
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by TonyM

seaneT1 wrote:Team sky might have the biggest budget, but it has come to my attention that so far, they haven't bought a ready made GT winner (at least not with any succes)...Wiggins, Froome, and now maybe G are all there since the begining and have developed mostly inside the team, they sure do buy very good domestics, but other teams don't fall behind in that department either. Look at Movistar's team right now for goodness sake! Also, looking at the team standings this year, sky isn't even second, while other years they were dominating that classement from start till the very end most of the times. Also, about Bahrain putting men in front today, it is only logical, since the GC threats apply to all the GC contenders the same at that point, SKY didn't even have the yellow jersey and nobody knew excactly how things would play out since it was the first real GC test, and so if Nibali felt good today, he would want to go for it. Later on he found out that maybe his good wasn't good enough, but before today, no one could have predicted that for sure, so they did a real good job with helping the chase, no matter the outcome. If they do that again tommorow, then yes, they might really be idiots since SKY showed that they are still the boss, but today they had to and bravo to them doing it.
Sky has by far the biggest budget but they also do their homework very well (up to very small details) and usually have a very good tactic.

Many teams have learned from them how to improve their to dos but they still struggle with the tactics. To me Sky almost never make mistakes in terms of tactics. Bardet did today (his own words). Bahrain did today (my view on the pull of Pozzovivo etc...). Movistar is stuck with a very passive Quintana. D. Martin is alone.
So sure Sky is good but many other teams are not really good.

I saw also today the briefing of Direct Energie to their riders stating that they didn’t know how Sky will work today...Come on that is not rocket science what Sky did,just the Sky train as usual and accelerating it in the last climb. And because of Thomas’s good shape we knew that he might attack at some point (or Froome) in the last ascent.

KWalker
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by KWalker

I'm sorry, but budget gets you equipment, smooth logistics, doctors/trainers, etc. but the tactics part can't really be bought. Everyone knows the stages and should be able to work with their riders to come up with a plan. Movistar sounded like they came up with a plan they couldn't actually fully carry out and it backfired.

I agree that many of the other teams are quite poor especially when Sky really doesn't have that many tactics it uses that often.
Don't take me too seriously. The only person that doesn't hate Froome.
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wingguy
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by wingguy

Rondje wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:24 pm
With only 2 mountain stages done? That's way to premature. Dumoulin and Froome could easily drop out after that incredible hard Giro. And Thomas never has proven he could do it. There are still so many mountain stages to come. And the 2nd rest day still has to come to see the revival of Nibali.
Oh for sure, I did say I was sticking my neck out :P Going into the race I thought Dumoulin would suffer badly after the Giro, but he looked good so far and unless the other contenders step up and fragment the race he can keep riding with that smooth style, never go too far into the red, and bank on the final TT.

As for G, he's got a good buffer already, he's proven many times that he can climb with the best now, he's a much better TTer than any other top tier contender besides CF and TD, and as I said the last time he blew up in a GT as opposed to crashing out was actually a fair while ago. Yes it's still premature, I just prefer to expect that riders will live up to their promise rather than hope for their failure. There's too much of that around here, as the last few pages demonstrate :|

seaneT1
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Location: Thessaloniki, Greece

by seaneT1

To be honest I can't completely articulate accuratelly what I want to say, but here goes what I believe, which is that the other teams have the power in terms of riders, some I believe have stronger teams this year than sky, and have enough money BUT they either fail in terms of planning and tactics or their leader fails them for some reason. And that is why we have a "really good" team, like sky right now, made to look like a super unbeatable team from outer space ( which they are most definitely not) because the other teams are, simply put, "bad"! And that I believe is the real problem right now, and not what Nibali has said, which would have been the case if only the rest of the teams were at least "good". Team sunweb is the first exception thus far and they already have won the Giro last year and keep on improving and in the next GT's (I really hope) will probably be going head to head with sky for the win.

maquisard
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by maquisard

KWalker wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:16 pm
I'm sorry, but budget gets you equipment, smooth logistics, doctors/trainers, etc. but the tactics part can't really be bought.
So you can buy a good doctor, a good trainer, but you can't buy a DS who is a good tactician... bit of a stupid thing to say :smartass:

maquisard
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by maquisard

bilwit wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:58 pm
Wiggins was 4th in the Tour (3rd if you don't count Mr. Armstrong) in 2009 with Garmin-Sharpe. He only transferred to Sky because they offered him a huge contract. I get your point but still. They are so utterly dominant it's unbelievable. I could not believe Quintana, Nibali, Bardet and Landa all got dropped like a sack of potatoes..
Wiggins also has a well publicised off-score anomaly in the 2009 TdF that hints at blood doping. I think 2009 marked an ethical turning point for him.

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tymon_tm
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by tymon_tm

wingguy wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:05 pm
tymon_tm wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:33 am
sure, not this season they haven't, but nonetheless they have won classics before, they key riders do target them, and all in all their presence is noticeable at very least - my point was that's what differs them from Postal
No - your point in that paragraph, as you wrote it, was that other teams are left with crumbs because Sky are targeting the classics. Ask Quickstep, BMC and Movistar what those crumbs taste like :wink:
nope, my original post was about SKY dominating cycling to much bigger extent than USPS, mainly because they target (often successfully) practically every important race in the calendar. the word crumbs was used - I believe that's how you call it - as a figurative speech. but you're welcome to pick on every single word or phrase if that's what rocks your boat :roll:
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

wingguy
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by wingguy

tymon_tm wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:50 pm
nope, my original post was about SKY dominating cycling to much bigger extent than USPS, mainly because they target (often successfully) practically every important race in the calendar.
It was about that, but it was also about more than that.

You chose to talk about how there's nothing left for any new Pro team with a good budget because Sky target all the GTs, all the top 1 week races and all the classics. You chose to say that hypothetical team would have nothing left to target except ToC or Norway because Sky are taking everything else. That entire section of your post was irrelevant if all you wanted to say was that Sky do more than Postal did, but you said it anyway.

Please, feel free to say you misspoke, or you were wrong and I'll gladly accept that. But don't blame me for responding to what you chose to say. You wrote it, you own it.

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mrgray
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by mrgray

Is it great tactics by sky or just an extraordinary capacity to ride big W/kg and super reliable gc contenders? I’d have thought it’s the rider’s capacities rather than tactics that is making other teams look a bit ragged.

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Snabb
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by Snabb

G and Froomey toying with the best climbers in the world and Fcking Luke Rowe as a climbing domestique. Is this real life ? Is this 1999 ?
Ride lots!

wingguy
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by wingguy

mrgray wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:10 pm
Is it great tactics by sky or just an extraordinary capacity to ride big W/kg and super reliable gc contenders? I’d have thought it’s the rider’s capacities rather than tactics that is making other teams look a bit ragged.
The tactics are simple though it's not just the ability but the discipline within the team to carry them out with no regard to personal ambition, from riders who could easily be protected stars with domestiques of their own if they rode for any other outfit. Although letting Valverde go without any reaction was a good move. The temptation must have been to go hard and bring him back but they had the confidence to wait, and as stated by others it suckered other teams into burning their resources in the chase.

wingguy
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by wingguy

Snabb wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:14 pm
G and Froomey toying with the best climbers in the world and Fcking Luke Rowe as a climbing domestique.
To be fair, there were 40 odd riders up the road constantly gaining time when Rowe was on the front. It was still a big job, but lets not pretend he was shelling the bunch.

guyc
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by guyc

And since when were G and Froome not amongst the world’s best climbers?

Is it 1999 since you watched any racing?

by Weenie


bilwit
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by bilwit

guyc wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:31 pm
And since when were G and Froome not amongst the world’s best climbers?

Is it 1999 since you watched any racing?
Froome -- the day before the 2011 Vuelta
Thomas -- yesterday?

:lol:
tymon_tm wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:50 pm
nope, my original post was about SKY dominating cycling to much bigger extent than USPS, mainly because they target (often successfully) practically every important race in the calendar. the word crumbs was used - I believe that's how you call it - as a figurative speech. but you're welcome to pick on every single word or phrase if that's what rocks your boat :roll:
You're arguing with Wingguy which means whatever you say only actually means what he wrongly interprets instead :lol: :lol:

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