Disc brake performance: etap HRD or Di 9170?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Drizt
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:16 pm

by Drizt

Trying out campy rotors with shimano calipers. Pads seem to run to the outer edge of the rotors (without any over hang).

What's the ideal touch points for the pads on the rotors? Image

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by Weenie


morrisond
Posts: 780
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by morrisond

If anything I would say it would be better if the Caliper was slightly closer to the fork on your bike so that it grabs the bottom track. Your caliper doesn't seem to be grabbing enough of the Rotor. I don't know if that is possible with your setup though.

I might have it wrong in my previous post - maybe the height of the campy braking surface is higher than SRAM/Shimano.

I have Ice-tech and Campy Rotors at home - I'll look later.

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

Gearjunkie wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:05 am
Hi All

Sorry if this has been covered before, I did a search but didn't find much.

Not wanting to restart the Di2 vs etap debate generally, just want to know what people (who have ridden both) think of the braking performance. I'm thinking power, modulation, noise in the dry, noise in the wet etc.

Any experiences with both sets of brakes?

Thanks
GJ
Don't think you will have problems with any modern disc brake system.
(Sure, you can complain on silly things what ever you tend to use.)
Buy the groupset you like most and i am sure you will be happy.
The disc brakes will do their job
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TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

morrisond wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:48 pm

I'm guessing Campy's pads are different shape than HRD - you might have to space the HRD Caliper out a little so the pads are not hitting the slots.

I put Potenza HO on my gravel bike and had to use RX4's as it was post mount and had to space the calipers out a little more to keep them engaging the Rotor part and not the spokes of the rotor if that makes sense.

Maybe the Campy pads - which are made for campy calipers and rotors aren't as tall?

It has nothing to do with the pads hitting the arms connecting to the carrier. That would cause a ping ping ping noise and not a solid tone. Besides, the Campy pads are taller.

XCProMD
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by XCProMD

TobinHatesYou wrote:
morrisond wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:00 am
By many reports Campy is probably the best right now for disc braking, then probably Shimano then SRAM.
The company with the first-generation product made for them by Magura is the "best?" Citation needed.

I can tell you at least one thing. H11 rotors are designed in a way that give no consideration to noise. The high number of evenly spaced vertical vents turn the brakes into WWII Carter air raid sirens (or Chewbacca.)

Mr. Wizard example with a hilariously dangerous circular saw: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lsfczwy3KOE

False. The cutouts in Campag rotors are sequenced so the material around each of them has a different resonance in segments which are a sixth of the circumference.

Then you don’t understand the partnership between Magura and Campag but then why would you.

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TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

https://youtu.be/sVYEzRNdqjY

This sound must be all in your imagination then.

The partnership between Campagnolo and Magura is pretty simple. Campagnolo doesn’t have the expertise to do it on their own yet. Same with Rotor and Magura. If you think it’s primarily some other reason, then please enlighten us.

Davide Campagnolo, Tulio’s grandson, was intimately involved in the process and told us, “Campagnolo had no knowledge of disc brake design, so we did the project supported by the knowledge of Magura. There are internal parts that were co-developed with Magura – the piston, the hydraulics.”

This is marketing speak for Magura technical design with input from Campagnolo. I would bet that Campagnolo’s involvement was mostly aesthetic in nature, then little things like asking for rubber on the backplates.
Last edited by TobinHatesYou on Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

jasjas
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Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:15 am

by jasjas

It seems hrd to believe that campag would nt have spotted that particular sound at the first tests?
Can you be sure rotor design is the cause and not a worn brake pad or other issue?
From one of the initial test ride reports.....
"On the road, the most striking thing about the brake is its quiet operation. There’s barely a hiss, even under heavy, and repeated, braking; no vibration or harshness telegraphs though the system. It’s really wonderful, but I don’t know if this performance carries over to the wet"

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

It’s the exact kind of tone you get when you start chopping air in a ventilated drum siren, so my hypothesis would seem pretty *sound* (excuse the pun.) I have a hard time believing this is a compatibility issue with H11 rotors and other calipers because the H11s have the most consistent radius and my HRD pads contact the rotor right in the middle of the vents with no overhang.

jasjas
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by jasjas

I d not use Campag parts on my Shimano disc set up (mtb) and neither would i use shimano if i had a Campag set-up.

First ride Campag disc impressions dont seem to have reports of noise, so maybe you should stick to Shimano disks?

morrisond
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by morrisond

TobinHatesYou wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:28 pm
It’s the exact kind of tone you get when you start chopping air in a ventilated drum siren, so my hypothesis would seem pretty *sound* (excuse the pun.) I have a hard time believing this is a compatibility issue with H11 rotors and other calipers because the H11s have the most consistent radius and my HRD pads contact the rotor right in the middle of the vents with no overhang.
Well they work absolutely fine with Campy Calipers and Hope RX4's. You are calling Campy's braking system inferior as the Rotors don't work with your SRAM Calipers....Interesting that you think that's a Campy problem. Yes I guess they should have done the engineering for that combination...

Do your Brake pads contact the brake track both above and below the vents? Pics of your used rotors would be helpful.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

morrisond wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:27 pm

Well they work absolutely fine with Campy Calipers and Hope RX4's. You are calling Campy's braking system inferior as the Rotors don't work with your SRAM Calipers....Interesting that you think that's a Campy problem. Yes I guess they should have done the engineering for that combination...

Do your Brake pads contact the brake track both above and below the vents? Pics of your used rotors would be helpful.
Looks like perfect coverage to me.

Image

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Lewn777
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by Lewn777

I don't have much experience with road hydraulic disk, but extensive experience with mountain bikes. I've run both SRAM and Shimano brakes, in my opinion Shimano make better brakes, period. The cooling fins on the pads offer good cooling, the hydraulic mineral oil is inert and environmentally safer than DOT fluid and has less air bubble trapping issues making Shimano easier to bleed. SRAM also have a reputation for squeeling and warbling, but they make nicer rotors IMO. I also think Shimano centerlock is very good, but I hate that it's proprietary tech.

However as the systems are integrated on road bikes I think I'd still put up with SRAM, as I prefer the shifting appearance and weight. I might also experiment with using a Hope Caliper and real after-market floating rotors.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

At some point I will try the RX4s or the next-generation after that since Hope’s pad shapes are similar to old Shimano, current Magura and TRP. Maaaaybe that will result in more consistent component mixing, but I doubt it.

SRAM’s rotors aren’t pretty, but their vents were very thoughtfully designed.
Last edited by TobinHatesYou on Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

morrisond
Posts: 780
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:34 pm

by morrisond

That does look like pretty good coverage on the Rotor - Weird.

You will love RX4's - they provide the power you think you should get from Hydro's.

I'm building another bike with H11's and Campy Rotor's/Calipers so I should be able to compare.

I had two bikes with Shimano Hydro - very nice but I was underwhelmed by the braking power.

by Weenie


morrisond
Posts: 780
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:34 pm

by morrisond

One last thought - maybe try spacing your HRD Caliper out a bit - the disc could be hitting the pad carrier. I had to do that with my RX4's but hey were Postmount.

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