Tubular road rim for 29er wheel build?

Discuss light weight issues concerning mountain bikes & parts.

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LeDuke
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by LeDuke

I think I responded to a very similar question on MTBR recently; it might have been you that posted it.

You can buy DT Swiss XRC 950T tubular rims on ebay. Got mine for $400 each. 26mm wide.

You can also buy 25mm wide, 30mm deep rims for $480 a pair on bikehubstore.com. Not sure about hole count.

For 29ers, you can buy the following tires:

Dugast Fast Bird Flying Doctor
Dugast Rhino
Schwalbe Racing Ralph
Tufo XC2 Plus
Tufo XC4
Tufo XC5
Tufo XC6

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Mads Kock
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by Mads Kock

Good posting leduke

What is the weight of those DT Swiss rims?

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LeDuke
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by LeDuke

I'll let you know in about a week or so. I'm overseas at the moment. They were shipped to my parents house, who confirmed dimensions and quality, but they don't have a scale.

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Mads Kock
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by Mads Kock

LeDuke

How do they bake without a scale?

;-)

krzysiekmz
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by krzysiekmz

SPAM !
Orbea Oiz - xxxx
MSC Koncept Carbon Di2 - 6955g
Leichtkraft Team Carbon - 6868g.

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LeDuke
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by LeDuke

My DT Swiss XRC 950T 29er rims weighed 315 and 320g, respectively.

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yourdaguy
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by yourdaguy

The main advantage of road tubulars is that because the tube is part of the tire and the rims don't have to have bead locks that keep the tire from blowing off the rim at hight pressure the whole system can by about a pound lighter. Also, because of this unit design, higher pressures are possible. Claims of lower rolling resistance have been dis proven by tire tests that show the Vittoria Eveo tires to have less RR than almost any tubular. There is a slight advantage to ride quality to road tubulars though in general.

I think that mountain bike tubulars are all marketing. On a mountain bike, wide tires with low pressure is the goal. Nobody ever blew a tire off a bead at 25 psi. Also, tubulars are not particularly good at resisting side loading and staying on the rim and side loads are greater in MTB. Also, if you are not running tubeless then you are not using the optimum setup for MTB. Additionally, do you see how often the pro's flat in races on the road? I generally get a thorn about every 20miles. With tubeless and sealant, I never even notice until I get home. With tubulars, you will be walking out unless you have a support vehicle to bring you spare wheels. While a tubular system could be about a pound lighter, the lack of sealant would make it a race only "hope I don't get a thorn" wheelset. Ride quality on low pressure wide MTB tires is already great so I see no advantage there for tubular either. Rolling resistance on dirt of a MTB tire is more related to thread pattern that casing construction and tubeless casings are very similar to tubular casings on MTB tires so again no real advantage. The available tires for tubular is very little and since I don't think it will ever catch on in a big way, it will stay that way. The cost of MTB tubular is also a huge factor with the tires being very expensive and none of them as wide as the available regular tires. I could go on, but basically, all the benefits of tubular on road bikes are not advantages on MTB's.

I have 3 sets of LB (Light Bicycle) wide 29er rims that I run with Bontragger rim strips (see thread on Cheap Chinese Carbon rims). Also, Derby now makes a 35mm wide 29er rim with a raised area instead of bead locks that I would consider very strongly if I was buying rims today. The LB rim is lighter, but I don't consider it safe without the rim strips and the Derby has a smaller ERD (shorter spokes) so both options would build up to about the same weight if you add the rims strips to the LB build. Builds with LB rims, American Classic hubs, and DT Revolution spokes are coming in around 1450 grams without the rim strips so a Derby build would be around 1530 and give you super wide traction. And both work really well tubeless.
For certain parts stiffer is more important than lighter.

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yourdaguy
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by yourdaguy

PS. Those threads I mentioned are on MTBR.com

Don't give me any **** about postong another site. I was WW long before I ever went to MTBR but I will take useful information from any site
For certain parts stiffer is more important than lighter.

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the_marsbar
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by the_marsbar

No worries, yourdaguy. Personally I appreciate people posting info no matter where they got it from. We don't need to invent the deep dish once again (I don't know the English expression, but that's what we say here) ;)

I started using tubular tires when I got a cyclocross bike. I really like them for that, but I don't think I'd want them for my mountain bike, unless I had quite an extra pair of wheels just for that. And even them I'm not sure... In cyclocross we are restricted to tires that are 33 mm wide. With a clincher tire and rim (with tubes), you can't go too low, otherwise you'll get a snake bite, og put a dent in your rim.

jooo
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by jooo

yourdaguy wrote:I think that mountain bike tubulars are all marketing.

I don't agree - XC tubulars may not be for you, but many others ride and enjoy them.

If it's all marketing, then I'll ask you this, why do pro's ride huge amounts of tubular wheel/tyre gear that is not (or probably ever will be) for sale to the general public? Seems pointless to market something that isn't even for sale?

bigben99
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by bigben99

I agree,Planet X do carbon cyclocross wheelsets with disc hubs :up:

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yourdaguy
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by yourdaguy

The pro's ride tubulars because they have a car right behind them with spares and as I said, they do save about a pound and it is rotating weight. The pro's have to be able to respond to attacks instantly. I have several buddies that tried tubular on the road and they all finally gave up after having a few flats and the huge problems that caused. They did like them though. On the road, the advantages are more even. In the dirt, not so much. To each his own; if someone wants to put up with the shortcomings on MTB tubular they are welcome, but I can't afford to be stuck 7 miles from the car with a tire that won't hold air and no way to ride back. If you are talking about the few pro MTB's that are on tubulars; they ride what the sponsor tells them and in order to sell this, they have to have some pro's on them. And again in an all out race, there is a weight advantage for a pro, but to me that would be offset by all the less than desirable features I mentioned above for everyday use.

As to why the pro's ride stuff that never comes up for sale, that is product development. If the pro's don't destroy it, then it might go into production unless production costs are too high, etc. Also, a lot of what the pro's get is one of a kind stuff that could never be mass produced because it costs way too much and has no long term reliability. Especially with wheels, most pro's weigh 170 lbs. or less and ride smoothly and don't land on rocks in the rock garden. You could easily build a race rim for them that was expected to only last a few races but you could never release that wheelset to the public because the first time a 200+ lb guy landed on a baby head there would be a lawsuit. Even if you limited it to 170 lb riders, it was only expected to last a few races-released to the public for long term use the warranty rate would be 100%.
For certain parts stiffer is more important than lighter.

jooo
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by jooo

I just don't agree though, even some privateer types paying for their gear have run XC tubulars because they like how they perform. If they were as fragile as you say racers would just not risk using something that could cost them chances at podiums etc. Have you seen Nino Schurter ride? He may not trash bikes like a bad 100kg trail rider but he's fast. He has actually rolled a tubular or two, but these seem like instances where he could have wrecked any combo - tubes, tubeless etc. He sure seems to have broken less wheels than riders on light aluminum rims too

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yourdaguy
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by yourdaguy

Cross bikes are more like road bikes. The original poster asked about a 29er wheel build.
For certain parts stiffer is more important than lighter.

jooo
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by jooo

I haven't mentioned anything about cyclocross :noidea:

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