Diet/training for a LONG ride in mountains

A light bike doesn't replace good fitness.

Moderator: Moderator Team

Post Reply
charirider
Posts: 263
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:00 am

by charirider

Hi fellows,

I live in Japan and LOVE to ride in Japanese mountains, long rides especially. My longest ride up to date was 145km/2500m of ascent ride done in 10 hours with 1 stop for a lunch and some stops to refill water bottles.
The thing is, I want to do MUCH longer attempts, like 250km/5000m a day.
I am not training in any particular manner, except of doing 70-100km mountanious ride with 1-1.5k ascent, couple times a month (which is easy for me already).
Also no particulat food and water intake scheme... so much so, I drunk only 3x0.5l bottles of pure water and ate a couple of sandwitches on that 145km ride.
At the end of it was 30km long climb, and when I have arrived to the destination I was half dead. How could I boost my energy for such long rides with lots of climbs?
1) Any particular diet for mountain goats?) Carbs plus protein, or something else? About carbs, which type of food you prefer?
2) How much should I drink? How much is too much?
3) After a ride I didnt have any particular pain in my legs or other parts of the body, just was tired overall. But are there any stretching should be donebefore the ride/before long 30-50k ascent?

Please share your hillclimbing tips and experience!
2018 Cannondale SuperSix EVO 2 rim size 56 (raw stripped) 6.9kg
2014 Bridgestone Anchor CX6 Equipe size 55 (cyclocross) 9.8kg

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



Butcher
Shop Owner
Posts: 1917
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:58 am

by Butcher

My longest mountain climb was 10k feet and 100 miles. Lots of water which was located on the route. I can't stand eating on a ride. I force myself when I do. What works for me is gels. I heard you can have some stomach issues so water is important. So far, so good with that.

jayjay
Posts: 392
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:07 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

by jayjay

I would completly dry out if I only drank 1.5L in 10 hours!

basilic
Posts: 1028
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:05 am
Location: Geneva, Switzerland

by basilic

Maybe you were just dehydrated. If you had hypoglycemia you'd notice other symptoms (hunger, cold sweat, trembling, feeling irritable,...)
Drink more, and put fizzy salt tablets in the water, especially if it's hot. (I doubt you can drink too much - slow down if you need to pee every 10 minutes)
Eating is personal, I much prefer real food over various goos and bars.

joejack951
Posts: 1162
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:50 pm
Location: Wilmington, DE
Contact:

by joejack951

There are likely calculators available online but you can do some basoc math to figure out how not to bonk (true bonking —> complete depletion of energy stores).

1. For most people, you’ll start with about 2000 calories worth of stored, easily accessed energy in your muscles.
2. From there, you need to determine your caloric burn per hour of cycling (probably 400-600 calories per hour).
3. You cycled 145 km in 10 hours so 250 km should be 2/3 more or roughly 16 hours
4. 16 hours * 500 calories per hour = 8000 calories
5. 8000 - 2000 = 6000 calories. Divided by 16 hours yields 375 calories per hour needed to not bonk (nearly 100 grams of carbohydrate per hour assuming no fat is being utilized).

That’s a lot to consume and most people would struggle to digest that much. However, during a 16 hour effort you are most certainly going to be burning quite a bit of stored fat which helps offset the need to consume calories. At 9 calories per gram we all have plenty of stored fat-derived calories to use but the effort level needs to be kept quite low to burn (nearly) exclusively fat.

And that’s where some experimentation is in order if you truly want to maximize performance. Or you can just wing it, perhaps assuming a 75/25 carb/fat split for calorie burn which leaves you consuming 75 grams of carbs per hour to sustain a 16 hour effort.

Note that I’m making a lot of assumptions here and could be way off on the critical numbers (calories burned per hour and carb/fat split). I’m just doing math, not offering strict advice! I’m not even touching hydration/electrolytes here as that’s even more personal/environmental than calories are.

One actual bit of actual advice, though, don’t make the mistake of going too hard early. Anaerobic efforts burn through energy stores quickly (I forget the exact rate) and you risk putting yourself in a situation where you simply can’t consume enough to avoid a bonk.

charirider
Posts: 263
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:00 am

by charirider

Thanks for advices, expecially how to calculate calories needed and amount of carbigydrates !
I'll try 200km with some 3.5-4k climbing first, and to drink as much water as possible (will try to locate water sources along the route, because I dont want to climb with more water than stored in my 2 elite fly 550ml bidons), and eat as much energy bars as I can... and of course 3 complete meals
2018 Cannondale SuperSix EVO 2 rim size 56 (raw stripped) 6.9kg
2014 Bridgestone Anchor CX6 Equipe size 55 (cyclocross) 9.8kg

poulhansen
Posts: 297
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:49 pm
Location: Danmark

by poulhansen

In my country you can always go for graveyards for water. They always have a tap :-)
Cannondale Super Six HiMod 2017 6.7 kg
Cannondale six13, 2004, 5.50kg
Focus Izalco Max, 2023 4.418 kg

yinya
Posts: 229
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:06 pm

by yinya

I would recommend you do a few times back to back days of the 150k/2500m days.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

maxim809
Administrator
Posts: 852
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:28 am

by maxim809

Start with 60g carbs per hour.

Slowly build up to 120g carbs/hr. Training your gut to handle this takes time. It's all about absorption and drinking enough water.

https://www.mysportscience.com/post/201 ... g-exercise
Image

For carbs above 60g/hr you'll need to look into fructose.

Drinking enough water is key for Tonacity. It's layman's terms for how concentrated the drink is wrt to blood plasma.

Hypotonic = Less concentrated than blood. This is good for hydrating the athlete, especially for LONG and HOT rides.

Isotonic = Drink is around same concentration as blood. Used for optimizing drink for maximum calorie content without dehydrating athlete. These are better for short ride where calorie content is important. Relying solely on Isotonic can leave you feeling dehydrated at the end of long, hot rides because they don't replace water lost through sweat and breathing.

Hypertopic = Higher concentration than blood. The best for cramming as many calories as possible. Not recommended if goal is hydration and fueling long rides. Based on how much you push osmolarity, these can easily dehydrate you. But it is an option if you have access to both HYPOtonic drinks and HYPERtonic drinks spread evenly across your ride.

Lastly, hypertonic can quickly cause palette fatigue. Which is a bigger picture thing: Finding the right variety of foods/drinks you can consume all throughout your ride. So it's a matter of trying different things and identifying the foods you love. While staying within the guidelines of 60~120g/hr carbs consumption, and thinking about Tonacity.

the jackel
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:44 pm
Location: London

by the jackel

https://road.cc/content/review/eatmyrid ... ion-294271

Saw this the other day, no idea how good it is but it might offer some useful insight

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



Post Reply