Can't ride for a week: bank hours or just take the rest?
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Hello, I've got a bit of a conundrum for you all, hopefully I've kept it simple enough.
Although I'm not strictly speaking following a training plan (summer fun gets in the way ), I am riding a lot, ~15hrs a week of endurance, one fast group ride, and recovery. Unfortunately I'm going on holiday soon for about a week, and won't be able to take my bike. Some walks could be on the cards, but certainly no cycling.
My question is, should I try to 'bank' training hours in the days before I go on holiday by doing a couple of much longer rides than usual? (eg. 2x 6hr+ rides, maybe a short spin to take me up to ~13-14hrs). I figure it's okay to do this, since I'll have a while to recover from the fatigue, but would there be any real training benefit? Might it be better to simply ride like normal and take the holiday week in my stride?
Probably worth mentioning that I just had an easy week the week before last.
Although I'm not strictly speaking following a training plan (summer fun gets in the way ), I am riding a lot, ~15hrs a week of endurance, one fast group ride, and recovery. Unfortunately I'm going on holiday soon for about a week, and won't be able to take my bike. Some walks could be on the cards, but certainly no cycling.
My question is, should I try to 'bank' training hours in the days before I go on holiday by doing a couple of much longer rides than usual? (eg. 2x 6hr+ rides, maybe a short spin to take me up to ~13-14hrs). I figure it's okay to do this, since I'll have a while to recover from the fatigue, but would there be any real training benefit? Might it be better to simply ride like normal and take the holiday week in my stride?
Probably worth mentioning that I just had an easy week the week before last.
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Do whatever you feel will keep you mentally in the game after vacation. If losing some CTL bothers you, then increase your volume in the weeks ahead of your holiday. If not, don't worry about it.
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At 15 hours a week, any additional hour is already marginal benefits. 6 + hour rides is already way past the point of marginal benefits.themidge wrote: ↑Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:34 pmHello, I've got a bit of a conundrum for you all, hopefully I've kept it simple enough.
Although I'm not strictly speaking following a training plan (summer fun gets in the way ), I am riding a lot, ~15hrs a week of endurance, one fast group ride, and recovery. Unfortunately I'm going on holiday soon for about a week, and won't be able to take my bike. Some walks could be on the cards, but certainly no cycling.
My question is, should I try to 'bank' training hours in the days before I go on holiday by doing a couple of much longer rides than usual? (eg. 2x 6hr+ rides, maybe a short spin to take me up to ~13-14hrs). I figure it's okay to do this, since I'll have a while to recover from the fatigue, but would there be any real training benefit? Might it be better to simply ride like normal and take the holiday week in my stride?
Probably worth mentioning that I just had an easy week the week before last.
You will be banking a miniscule amount of benefit, all of which will be completely wiped out during your rest week. And you will be breaking the "golden rule" of not increasing your intensity or training time by more than 3-10% a week. Do so at your own risk.
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Bianchi Specialissima Pantani Edition
Campy R 12spd mechanical
Fulcrum Racing Speed 35 tubs
FSA / Deda bits and parts
Doesn't it depend on what one is training for? If one needs to be "good" for massive 10 hour+ mountain days, wouldn't some 10 hour rides be helpful?iheartbianchi wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:14 am...6 + hour rides is already way past the point of marginal benefits.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.
That's my experience.Mr.Gib wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:58 amDoesn't it depend on what one is training for? If one needs to be "good" for massive 10 hour+ mountain days, wouldn't some 10 hour rides be helpful?iheartbianchi wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:14 am...6 + hour rides is already way past the point of marginal benefits.
I'm certain that there's a very large range of needs on an individual basis, but specificity matters for everyone. In my view there's a huge gulf between 2 hour rides and 6 hour rides for the overwhelming majority, but beyond that, say 12 hours, is a modest step. That's not to say that a lot of performance can't be extracted if workouts are limited to 2 hours.
Sure, to be able to ride REALLY long days, it is beneficial (especially from a equipment, nutrition and planning perspective) to do really long training rides - but as above I'm not convinced that it is necessary from a training/fitness view. Of course, three three-hour rides at the same pace/effort/power as one nine-hour block is not identical in gains, but close enough and for many of us (that are busy enough juggling work/life/family/ride balance) it is sure as hell a lot easier to fit in. Truth to be told, I'd be hard pressed to fit just one truly massive ride (200km+) in per month while I can (with an alarm clock set to an uncomfortably early hour) fit in the equivalent in a week spread out over three mornings.
Interesting that additional hours have diminishing returns in terms of training benefit (if I have understood that right?). Could there be something to be said for limiting the amount of training hours (say, 15 max) so as to avoid excess fatigue? I'm decently fit, but it's not like I'm a pro training for a grand tour or the classics season - I don't really need to do mega hours, it's just fun to get faster and I figured more riding was the way to do it.iheartbianchi wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:14 amAt 15 hours a week, any additional hour is already marginal benefits. 6 + hour rides is already way past the point of marginal benefits.
You will be banking a miniscule amount of benefit, all of which will be completely wiped out during your rest week. And you will be breaking the "golden rule" of not increasing your intensity or training time by more than 3-10% a week. Do so at your own risk.
This is probably not going to go over well given the current list of responses, but if the OP (or anyone reading this) is not being paid to ride the bike, or is a promissing up and comming racer, and/or are not training for some super important event in the near future, then frickin stop worrying about losing a place or two on the weeknight/weekend worlds and go on vacation!themidge wrote: ↑Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:34 pmAlthough I'm not strictly speaking following a training plan (summer fun gets in the way ), I am riding a lot, ~15hrs a week of endurance, one fast group ride, and recovery. Unfortunately I'm going on holiday soon for about a week, and won't be able to take my bike. Some walks could be on the cards, but certainly no cycling.
- Michael
"People should stop expecting normal from me... seriously, we all know it's never going to happen"
"People should stop expecting normal from me... seriously, we all know it's never going to happen"
Haha fair point! I'm no pro, just curious about training even half as effectively as they do, that's part of the fun of cycling for me . But yeah, not gonna lose any sleep over getting spat on the Tuesday night worlds lol.ms6073 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:32 pmThis is probably not going to go over well given the current list of responses, but if the OP (or anyone reading this) is not being paid to ride the bike, or is a promissing up and comming racer, and/or are not training for some super important event in the near future, then frickin stop worrying about losing a place or two on the weeknight/weekend worlds and go on vacation!
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In the other monster thread I posted several tables which show point of diminishing returns for various physiological elements (which form part of your overall aerobic fitness).themidge wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:04 pm
Interesting that additional hours have diminishing returns in terms of training benefit (if I have understood that right?). Could there be something to be said for limiting the amount of training hours (say, 15 max) so as to avoid excess fatigue? I'm decently fit, but it's not like I'm a pro training for a grand tour or the classics season - I don't really need to do mega hours, it's just fun to get faster and I figured more riding was the way to do it.
Elements of Aerobic Fitness
1. HGH - peaks at around 40-45 minutes at low intensity (50-60% of MaxHR)
2. Mitochondira - peaks at around 60-90 minutes at low intensity (50-60% of MaxHR)
3. Capillarization - peaks at around 60-90 minutes at low intensity (50-60% of MaxHR)
So what is left?
4. Stroke volume - you need to go hard fast to maximize stroke volume. Contrary to long rides.
5. Oxygen uptake - this depends on innate natural ability and muscle mass/capillarization (i.e., not affected by long rides).
In terms of aerobic fitness, rides beyond 90 minutes are marginal gains.
Muscular endurance and energy efficiencies are basically the only reason you would want to go ride longer than 3 hours on a consistent basis, and even these come at a cost, not only in terms of injury risk but also in terms of power curve, body composition, etc.
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Yes, ultra endurance events require ultra endurance training. This is something I know nothing about, so if this is the case, please disregard everything I sayMr.Gib wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:58 amDoesn't it depend on what one is training for? If one needs to be "good" for massive 10 hour+ mountain days, wouldn't some 10 hour rides be helpful?iheartbianchi wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:14 am...6 + hour rides is already way past the point of marginal benefits.
Bianchi Oltre XR4
Celeste Matte
Campy SR 11spd mechanical
Bora Ultra 50 tubs
Viseon 5D / stock bits and parts
Bianchi Specialissima Pantani Edition
Campy R 12spd mechanical
Fulcrum Racing Speed 35 tubs
FSA / Deda bits and parts
Celeste Matte
Campy SR 11spd mechanical
Bora Ultra 50 tubs
Viseon 5D / stock bits and parts
Bianchi Specialissima Pantani Edition
Campy R 12spd mechanical
Fulcrum Racing Speed 35 tubs
FSA / Deda bits and parts
Also my coach says no. I train a "lot" for an amateur, around 17-20 hours in summer (ftp over 5wkg when in form). My coach never makes me ride more than 5 hours also if I have long races. He says it creates just aerobic overtraining and he showed me also studies... Nevertheless I have been extremely strong in those races (finished in top 3%) also if I never train for 7-9 hours. So it kinda works I think.Mr.Gib wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:58 amDoesn't it depend on what one is training for? If one needs to be "good" for massive 10 hour+ mountain days, wouldn't some 10 hour rides be helpful?iheartbianchi wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:14 am...6 + hour rides is already way past the point of marginal benefits.
Anyways I would do some running, although not to much and you wont loose to much and in 14 days you should be fine again.
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Ooo I forgot about this thread, I guess update: I didn't bank hours and resumed normal riding straight away after I got back. Felt a bit ropey for a few days but got back into the swing of things very quickly