Garmin/Strava- Training using Friel HR zones or....?

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Driftwood
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:18 am

by Driftwood

I have completed a functional HR test according to Joel Friel. Up to this point I've let Strava have its metric and Garmin has its but both are different in their own way. I train using both a Chest strap HRM and using a Power Meter and I have been following the 75% rule. I do a mix of weekly training including Tempo rides, Shorter and Longer Endurance rides and Climbs and my power continues to gradually increase.

Recently I've worked out all of my HR and Power Zones according to Friel but I've noticed that my Zone 2 for example has gone from what Strava uses (130) to Friel (145). Does this mean that my easy days have not been hard enough? I make sure that my hard days are hard enough and I will say that I feel more balanced at easier rides under 130. But is there margin for more and is there a benefit?

My Test results: 162HR /314W
Zone 1 <131
Zone 2 131-145
Zone 3 145-150
Zone 4 152-162
Zone 5A 162-167
Zone 5B 167-173
Zone 5C 173>

Can anyone speak to whether they use Friel's zones for the 75 Rule? Also, I'd welcome any advice on how Friel's zones are used by anyone here.

Further.....


Why Are Zones 3, 5A, 5B so close? Do you use the Power Zone instead? Where Zone 5A is Power Zone 5, HR Zone is Power Zone 6.

The mystery in Friel's book is I'm having trouble understanding when to train in which zone and the Training plans don't seem detailed enough or specific enough once you've worked out the zones. Example: I'd like to see something like Climbs 4min @ Power Zone 5. Or 20min Tempo @ Power Zone 4.

So if you are using Friel what does your specific weekly schedule look like including Power Zone for Interval and Rest?

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TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12443
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Strava HR zones are pure junk. They inflate everyone's sense of accomplishment. No, your 4 hour ride was not a "historic effort."

The upper HR zones are close because that's how our cardiovascular systems work. The tight zones correspond better to Coggan's power zones.

Train off HR zones up to HR Z2. You shouldn't really ever train at HR Z3 or power Z3. At Z4 it's a gray area, but you should focus more on power. By the time you hit intervals where you would be hitting HR zone 5A/5B, you should be using power targets exclusively.

Driftwood
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:18 am

by Driftwood

Follow up Questions:

1. Something else I'm trying to understand is where Aerobic Threshold lies.

For example.
Friel says after performing your field test that Zone 1 is up to 81% and Zone 2 is 82% to 89%. He also says that AeT is about 80% of your FHR.

So if 75% of your training should be in zones 1 and 2 does that mean it should be under your AeT (for me that's 129) or under 89% (tail of Zone 2, 145 for me)

2. If I'm planning on a 3hr ride with some Intervals mixed in, should the non-intervals be in Zone 1 or Zone 2

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12443
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Driftwood wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:05 pm
Follow up Questions:

1. Something else I'm trying to understand is where Aerobic Threshold lies.

For example.
Friel says after performing your field test that Zone 1 is up to 81% and Zone 2 is 82% to 89%. He also says that AeT is about 80% of your FHR.

So if 75% of your training should be in zones 1 and 2 does that mean it should be under your AeT (for me that's 129) or under 89% (tail of Zone 2, 145 for me)

2. If I'm planning on a 3hr ride with some Intervals mixed in, should the non-intervals be in Zone 1 or Zone 2

My HR zones are as follows:
Z1 <128bpm
Z2 128bpm to 142bpm
Z3 143bpm to 148bpm
Z4 149bpm to 158bpm
Z5A 159bpm to 162bpm
Z5B 163bpm to 169bpm
Z5C >169bpm

I can do 250W ~130bpm, so that's mid Z3 power, but low Z2 HR. If I am JRA at 200W (Z2 power), my HR will be ~115bpm (Z1 HR). At least for me, it doesn't make sense to be "recovering" at close to Z2 HR...

Driftwood
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:18 am

by Driftwood

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:11 am
[quote=Driftwood post_id=<a href="tel:1681579">1681579</a> time=<a href="tel:1623441957">1623441957</a> user_id=103859]
Follow up Questions:

1. Something else I'm trying to understand is where Aerobic Threshold lies.

For example.
Friel says after performing your field test that Zone 1 is up to 81% and Zone 2 is 82% to 89%. He also says that AeT is about 80% of your FHR.

So if 75% of your training should be in zones 1 and 2 does that mean it should be under your AeT (for me that's 129) or under 89% (tail of Zone 2, 145 for me)

2. If I'm planning on a 3hr ride with some Intervals mixed in, should the non-intervals be in Zone 1 or Zone 2

My HR zones are as follows:
Z1 <128bpm
Z2 128bpm to 142bpm
Z3 143bpm to 148bpm
Z4 149bpm to 158bpm
Z5A 159bpm to 162bpm
Z5B 163bpm to 169bpm
Z5C >169bpm

I can do 250W ~130bpm, so that's mid Z3 power, but low Z2 HR. If I am JRA at 200W (Z2 power), my HR will be ~115bpm (Z1 HR). At least for me, it doesn't make sense to be "recovering" at close to Z2 HR...
[/quote]

That sounds about right then. I'm approx 200w/120

When do you use 5a/5b/5c?
Have you matched those to HR so that in theory you can forget about HR and just Power Zone train? That's where I'm heading. Looking for advice to fine tune based on others training days/climbs/tempo/Tabby's

iheartbianchi
Posts: 680
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:17 am

by iheartbianchi

I'm confused - if you are using heart rate zones, why would you suddenly do intervals based on power? I think you'll only confuse yourself by trying to find the appropriate correlation bewteen HR and power, which as you know will differ depending on factors such as your position on the bike and the terrain. Make sure you have your power zones really dialed-in with an accurate FTP readout if you're going to do power based intervals (although I would just say "going [as hard as possible/95% max effort/90% max effort] for [1/3/5/10] minutes times [3 to 20 repetitions] with [1 to 5 minute rest]" is sufficient unless you are specifically training for a time trial or a specific KOM).

"2. If I'm planning on a 3hr ride with some Intervals mixed in, should the non-intervals be in Zone 1 or Zone 2"
-Why are you planning on a 3 hour ride with intervals mixed in?

"At least for me, it doesn't make sense to be "recovering" at close to Z2 HR..."
-There is no such thing as a recovery ride - "recovery" workouts are a terrible misnomer that somehow caught on but needs to be eradicated. You are either working your cardiovascular system and causing damage to your muscles, or you are sitting down/sleeping. The act of exercising has nothing to do with recovery, and is in fact a hindrance to recovery (with the caveat that frequent exercise builds up your tolerance to stress thus increasing the speed of your recovery after training over time). Likewise, a single bout of exercise does not "speed up" or "promote" recovery at all.

Don't worry about the difference between Zone 1 or Zone 2 - as long as you are above 50% of your MaxHR you are getting sufficient aerobic benefit (but losing out on muscular strength...but then your Zone 1/2 rides aren't supposed to work on muscular strength). However, unless you are really sore, you should avoid Zone 1 if possible.

Finally, splitting HR zones to 5bpm segments is a futile endeavor. You're either below, at, or above your lactate threshold and that's what you need to care about.

(I'm very anti-Friel)
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by Weenie


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