Are you not impressed by you expensive smart trainer? Kickr v5

[gSporco]

So, forgive me, as I just finished a session and I am writing this before I let my emotions calm down lol...

So, after lots of research and back and forth I decided to buy a Kickr v5..
Reasons:
1. REI Store gives you 10% back in cash to spend in the store so a $120 credit makes the $1200 price a little bit better... just a little bit.
2. I figured, its Wahoo, I like Wahoo, I use their stuff and let’s keep it in the family
3. Top end model, well it must be great... the reviews seem to think so as well

What can I compare it against: I currently have a Kinetic Road Machine Smart Wheel on trainer with, power, ERG and all the jazz...?

Why change: Well, its noisy (wheel on just creaks and squeaks), It doesn’t feel great, really fake and I thought since I can’t produce the same numbers I can do when I ride outside, it must be the trainer right?

Why am I going to return this expensive thing?
1. Honestly, it feels the same in Zwift... I have the difficulty set to about 80% on both units
2. The power data, surprisingly very close to the shitty Kinetic. And the shitty Kinetic was compared against my Quarq DUB PM a few times to see how of it was...
3. I ride 1x.. 42cr by 10-28 Cassette... When I hit a 13% gradient with the Kickr, I could barely turn the pedals 40 RPM at 42/28... Now this does not happen in real life where I ride... I train on hills that have 15% gradient and I can do about 65 RPM in 42/28 and it doesn’t feel like I am stuck in the mud... If I could barely turn the pedals at 80% Zwift trainer difficulty, I can’t image what 100% feels like.
Also, I want it to be difficult, or at least similar to the gradients outside
4. This is my biggest gripe, If I am traveling downhill going about 60Kmh on a -5 gradient and suddenly hit a 7% uphill "Short Roller” the resistance comes on hard... Now in real life if I am carrying 60kmh downhill and hit a short roller at about 7-8%, I can fly over it in the same gear... Lots of momentum is carrying me and I can keep my cadence in the same gear for most of that roller if not all of it until I crest the little hill and get over it... At the very least, it doesn’t feel like I hit 3 feet of mud suddenly and can’t pedal when I hit it at 60Kmh.

Ok, so I am returning this tomorrow... Am I crazy? Is this how all $1000 plus trainer’s work? If so, I’m sticking with my crappy Kinetic Smart Wheel on trainer...

Ok rant over... I feel better now... go ahead and tell me I am crazy or I am doing something wrong please lol...

[barbaar]

Looking forward to the feedback, as I recognize some from my Tacx Neo 2:
-squeaking
-momentum on short climbs after a descent

I would almost say this is the current status of smart trainers and Zwift is there is blame as well (overall, I think Zwift is underdeveloped, but that's a different story)

[Ypuh]

I'm not sure how much momentum you expect going from -5% to +7%? That will last you what, 20-30 meters? If you stop pedalling your Zwift character will probably spin on that bit. Power; it's not Wahoo's fault your Kinetic is also accurate.

All in all the Wahoo Kickr is probably one of the best indoor trainers, right behind the Neo. Note 'best indoor', it's not beating outdoor, merely trying to replicate it.

I'm guessing your overestimating the indoor hype. I've got a first gen Neo and am very happy with it (use it 3-4 times a week during the winter). I consider it more of a game to kill time though, rather than a realistic replacement for riding outdoors.

[RTW]

Sounds like you need to turn down the 'trainer difficulty' really.

[3Pio]

I have DiretoX and before that Kinetic Road Machine and also i bought upgrade weight for freewheel...

I used Road Machine using my Favero Assioma Duo Pedals... Even DiretoX is very very nice trainer, i still feel road feel, robustness etc from my trusty Kinetic.. So i just keep it and combine them both depend of mood, what i ride...

Also feel that new trainers are not build to last years and years of use like Kinetic Road Machine was.. Even i like that fact about DiretoX that most of issues can be solved on own without needing to send it for that (Belt and motherboard, to knock in wood no that kind of problems until now)

Regarding noise etc, maybe DiretoX is is more silent, but in same time more vibrations produced vs Kinetic...

So i feel ur pain, but it is what it is.. From other side, Smart Trainers simulating hills add some flavour to boring indoor riding, so most of time im on DiretoX vs Kinetic...

[guyc]

Sounds like you need to turn down the 'trainer difficulty' really.

This.

[gSporco]

I would almost say this is the current status of smart trainers and Zwift is there is blame as well (overall, I think Zwift is underdeveloped, but that's a different story)

Interesting… I guess it is the Zwift software telling the Trainer what to do.. But I was thinking more of the response times it takes for the trainer to catchup to gradient changes etc..

I'm not sure how much momentum you expect going from -5% to +7%? That will last you what, 20-30 meters? If you stop pedalling your Zwift character will probably spin on that bit. Power; it's not Wahoo's fault your Kinetic is also accurate.
I'm guessing your overestimating the indoor hype. I've got a first gen Neo and am very happy with it (use it 3-4 times a week during the winter). I consider it more of a game to kill time though, rather than a realistic replacement for riding outdoors.

I don’t stop pedaling when going down hill and still once you hit a gradient at speed, its like Zwift doesn’t care that you are going 60Kmh it just hits the brakes.. In real life I would only have to grind a bit at the crest of roller, if at all..
Yes, I guess your right.. $1200 for a trainer.. $14 a month for Zwift, I was expecting PS4 type realism.. I don’t mean graphics, I mean in the algorithms.. It cant possibly be that hard to program this.. They have all the variables (weight, speed, power, cadence, gradient, body weight, height etc…)

Sounds like you need to turn down the 'trainer difficulty' really.

Zwift states that 100% max Trainer difficulty provides real world feel on gradient changes.. I was trying 80ish% and it was nearly impossible to pedal over 40 RPM at 13%.. Something is flawed..

So i feel ur pain, but it is what it is.. From other side, Smart Trainers simulating hills add some flavour to boring indoor riding, so most of time im on DiretoX vs Kinetic...

Yeah, I am expecting to much for the money we are spending.. Im going to do the same route again on my Kinetic Smart Trainer and compare it.. If its close again.. I am returning the Wahoo.. Ill spend the money when the technology is there, but $1200 for a 50% solution is not my cup of tea.


On another note.. I notice another issue.. Cadence.. When I stop pedaling, it takes a solid 4 seconds or more for the RPM to read zero.. I mean come on, it’s a sensor, its either on or off.. Is it really that hard

[TobinHatesYou]

Sounds like you need to turn down the 'trainer difficulty' really.

It’s actually more than this. I just bought a KICKRv5 as well and the baseline resistance is noticeably high. I’ll be in 52x21 at 85rpm on a 0% grade and doing 200W. That’s equivalent to going 16.5mph and it doesn’t take 200W to do that speed in real life. If you let the flywheel coast down even a little bit, you really feel the inertia trying to spin it up again. This is weird to me because my Hammer has a larger flywheel, but feels way more progressive.

[TobinHatesYou]

Looking forward to the feedback, as I recognize some from my Tacx Neo 2:
-squeaking
-momentum on short climbs after a descent

I would almost say this is the current status of smart trainers and Zwift is there is blame as well (overall, I think Zwift is underdeveloped, but that's a different story)

Zwift doesn’t control the “feel” of a trainer. It is literally just sending a single value for the given gradient. The trainer is responsible for how quickly the resistance changes.

[TheRich]

Does anyone like how drastic grade changes feel on Zwift?

-Sent from Tempis Fugit

[spartacus]

I thought since I can’t produce the same numbers I can do when I ride outside, it must be the trainer right?

I can't either and I don't think it has anything to do with the trainer. I think the bike being locked in place and (mainly) heat management issues are the real reason and I think the severity of the effect varies from person to person. I've just accepted that my power is at least 10% lower inside.

[spartacus]

Does anyone like how drastic grade changes feel on Zwift?

-Sent from Tempis Fugit

Good question, I myself turn down the hill effect significantly as do most people that race on zwift AFAIK.

[gSporco]

Does anyone like how drastic grade changes feel on Zwift?

-Sent from Tempis Fugit

Well, I wouldnt mind an eased into gradient like in real life.. I mean, unless you didnt know the road, when was the last time you climbed a hill, going into it with some speed and then all of a sudden the crank gets stuck in the mud

But in all seriousness... I expected more (not real life, but close).. I actually felt diminished like I actually suck more than I do

Im returning this to REI today.. Ill look into a another Direct drive when I can get one for around $600.. At that price Ill complain less when I have to ride indoors for 3-4 months wishing I was outside..

[gSporco]

Sounds like you need to turn down the 'trainer difficulty' really.

It’s actually more than this. I just bought a KICKRv5 as well and the baseline resistance is noticeably high. I’ll be in 52x21 at 85rpm on a 0% grade and doing 200W. That’s equivalent to going 16.5mph and it doesn’t take 200W to do that speed in real life. If you let the flywheel coast down even a little bit, you really feel the inertia trying to spin it up again. This is weird to me because my Hammer has a larger flywheel, but feels way more progressive.

True, I couldnt belive the effort it took to get up the "bonus climb" section of "Mountain Route" in Watopia.. I am a better lifter than I am a cyclist, and at 80% difficulty it felt like I was Squating 400#.. I had to pause the ride and set the difficulty to 50% then it was unrealistic and I couldnt put any power down..

[Liimis22]

This is hilarious, zwifters at +50 y are amazed and using words like "Immersion"

Then there's people who are shocked they can't climb 42/28

Like normally I usually just fly over these rollers, this can't be real.

I paid for this s*it

:DDD

I like peoples different ways to experience life.