Garmin Edge App - Ultimate Cycling Data Field

A light bike doesn't replace good fitness.

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javier87gav
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:25 pm

by javier87gav

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:37 am
I literally train with 3s power, lap power, HR, cadence and time... Why would I need to see IF, kcal, TSS, etc midride?
I literally created this app for me and I've posted it in this forum in case it's useful to anybody, I'm not getting any money from this. I just wanted to help people for free, why did you think your comment is helpful to anybody? If you just need 3s power then you don't need this app and of course you don't need to post that comment. If you have any idea about how to improve the app you're very welcome to share it with us though.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 7010
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

javier87gav wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:26 pm
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:37 am
I literally train with 3s power, lap power, HR, cadence and time... Why would I need to see IF, kcal, TSS, etc midride?
I literally created this app for me and I've posted it in this forum in case it's useful to anybody, I'm not getting any money from this. I just wanted to help people for free, why did you think your comment is helpful to anybody?

I’m not here to be helpful, but I’d still love to know how you use post-workout focused metrics during rides.

by Weenie


javier87gav
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:25 pm

by javier87gav

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:34 pm
javier87gav wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:26 pm
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:37 am
I literally train with 3s power, lap power, HR, cadence and time... Why would I need to see IF, kcal, TSS, etc midride?
I literally created this app for me and I've posted it in this forum in case it's useful to anybody, I'm not getting any money from this. I just wanted to help people for free, why did you think your comment is helpful to anybody?

I’m not here to be helpful, but I’d still love to know how you use post-workout focused metrics during rides.
The kcal helps me to know when I have to eat something. For example, 1 energetic bar every 400cal and 1 gel every 600cal (I made up these numbers)
The NP and IF are really helpful for me, not only at the end of the workout but during the workout. For example when I ride for 2 hours I try to keep my IF close to the 90% during the whole ride.
About the TSS.. I don't really need it during the ride but you know.. when you're on a long ride or even when you're on a hard interval on the trainer, sometimes you need to cheat or distract your mind thinking in any other thing but your pain, looking at the statistics and thinking about that, at least for me, make it easier.

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pdlpsher1
Posts: 3014
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

javier87gav- I admire your work and thank you for sharing the app.

I've been playing around with the CIQ app. 'DIY' to try to create my own custom screens. Attached is a sample rendering of my creation. But I quickly found out that there are little nagging issues on a DIY project. Specifically there's no option to format the time in AM/PM, a lack of an ability to show Di2 battery status, and lastly the temperature polling rate is once every five minutes! I soon realized that the only ways I can get the screen exactly the way I wanted is 1) pay a programmer to create it for me or 2) I'll have to learn Monkey C. I have no programming background so I think learning Monkey C is a tall order. So I admire guys like you who can program a screen specifically for your needs and liking. Kudos to you.

Image

javier87gav
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:25 pm

by javier87gav

pdlpsher1 wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:31 pm
javier87gav- I admire your work and thank you for sharing the app.

I've been playing around with the CIQ app. 'DIY' to try to create my own custom screens. Attached is a sample rendering of my creation. But I quickly found out that there are little nagging issues on a DIY project. Specifically there's no option to format the time in AM/PM, a lack of an ability to show Di2 battery status, and lastly the temperature polling rate is once every five minutes! I soon realized that the only ways I can get the screen exactly the way I wanted is 1) pay a programmer to create it for me or 2) I'll have to learn Monkey C. I have no programming background so I think learning Monkey C is a tall order. So I admire guys like you who can program a screen specifically for your needs and liking. Kudos to you.

Image
Thanks Sir. Garmin doesn't facilitate the task.. I had to create my own algorithms to calculate the averages, NP, TSS, IF, etc, etc. Even thought garmin is calculating them at the same time, it's a nonsense, in the same way I can pull the power or the cadence we should be able to pull the rest of the metrics.. About the temperature.. same thing here.. the only way to pull that data is every 5 minutes.
Monkey C is pretty similar to C or Java, is not difficult at all. But like you said you need a programming background. Also Garmin is not providing a good doumentation so you have to spend a extra time searching or figuring out some basic things.. Anyway if you decide to learn programming and then create your garmin app I'll help you with the garmin api basics :)

Butcher
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by Butcher

javier87gav wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:08 pm
...when you're on a long ride or even when you're on a hard interval on the trainer, sometimes you need to cheat or distract your mind thinking in any other thing but your pain, looking at the statistics and thinking about that, at least for me, make it easier.
This. Some people like numbers. Why? Does it matter? They just like it. I feel I fit that catagory and I'm certainly not to keen on aligning the electrons to make stuff work. Thanks for putting out the effort so people like me can enjoy it.

And thanks for getting a 12hr option, I just down loaded it and it works fine. Zwift is calling my name but I've got work to do.

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pdlpsher1
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Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

Thanks javier87gav. I see your name on the DIY Garmin forum. Good to see you as a contributor on someone else's app. I imagine people come to the forum to learn about CIQ.

Good Lord on the 5 min. temp. polling rate and Garmin's unwillingness to make the power metrics available for developers. Pretty much a nonsense like you said.

At the moment I'm quite happy with the custom screen I have created. I can live without a real-time temp. But I have a couple questions on DIY if you don't mind helping me out. One is that I want to clock shown to be something like 05:12 instead of 17:12. I don't need to see am or pm. Is there a way to do this on DIY? I looked at the documentation but I can't seem to see any options to do that. Secondly on the Di2 battery level. Is that a Garmin issue or did the DIY developer opted to not include it? I'm able to get the Di2 gear info. on DIY but there's no Di2 battery level option. This is available as a standard Garmin field and I do have it on another screen. I just want to have one screen with all the data that I need. Thanks so much.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 7010
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

javier87gav wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:08 pm

The kcal helps me to know when I have to eat something. For example, 1 energetic bar every 400cal and 1 gel every 600cal (I made up these numbers)
The NP and IF are really helpful for me, not only at the end of the workout but during the workout. For example when I ride for 2 hours I try to keep my IF close to the 90% during the whole ride.
About the TSS.. I don't really need it during the ride but you know.. when you're on a long ride or even when you're on a hard interval on the trainer, sometimes you need to cheat or distract your mind thinking in any other thing but your pain, looking at the statistics and thinking about that, at least for me, make it easier.

My reasoning:

Counting kcals is misleading. You don't need nutrition for a high-intensity 1hr ride. You might want it for a high intensity 2hr ride, but kcal isn't the right metric to gauge when to eat. If you're riding steady mid Z4 for 2 hours, you should simply be taking in 30-40g of carbs every 30min regardless of calories burned because your body converts simple sugars into glycogen at a steady rate regardless of intensity. For longer endurance/tempo rides, the same strategy applies. You are fighting a constant deficit so the strategy is simply to take as many carbs as your body can convert back into energy when able.

With any structured workout, I already know the IF and TSS before the very first pedal stroke. On less structured rides, but still rides where I care about IF/TSS, I'm familiar enough with the route/duration to get a sense of what those values will be...within probably 5-10% accuracy.

mrlobber
Posts: 1258
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Location: Where the permanent autumn is

by mrlobber

I'm with Tobin on IF/TSS midride uselesness. At least one of them, as they're fairly easily to calculate from each other even in your head mid-ride.

However, kcal can be beneficial, especially if you're trying to optimize nutrition strategies (and I know coaches who like to give people workouts of type "spend 1000kcal riding before you start eating" and so on - not discussing whether these make sense here :D).
Another field which I personally use when racing is the direction, as paired with the wind knowledge, it allows you to quickly forecast / adjust your position in the pack.

Then again, both of these above are relatively rare use cases. But if you figure out where to put the direction (perhaps, by removing TSS/IF), I'm a completely happy user then.
Ex-bikes: Cube Aerium C68 SLT 2018 / Cervelo S5 2015 / Felt AR FRD 2014 / Cannondale SS HM 2014 / Scott Addict SL 2014 / Scott Plasma Premium 2014 / Orbea Orca 2008 / Look 596

javier87gav
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:25 pm

by javier87gav

pdlpsher1 wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:15 am
Thanks javier87gav. I see your name on the DIY Garmin forum. Good to see you as a contributor on someone else's app. I imagine people come to the forum to learn about CIQ.

Good Lord on the 5 min. temp. polling rate and Garmin's unwillingness to make the power metrics available for developers. Pretty much a nonsense like you said.

At the moment I'm quite happy with the custom screen I have created. I can live without a real-time temp. But I have a couple questions on DIY if you don't mind helping me out. One is that I want to clock shown to be something like 05:12 instead of 17:12. I don't need to see am or pm. Is there a way to do this on DIY? I looked at the documentation but I can't seem to see any options to do that. Secondly on the Di2 battery level. Is that a Garmin issue or did the DIY developer opted to not include it? I'm able to get the Di2 gear info. on DIY but there's no Di2 battery level option. This is available as a standard Garmin field and I do have it on another screen. I just want to have one screen with all the data that I need. Thanks so much.
I'm not sure how DIY works, I used it for a while but I finally created my own app because some metrics were not working because of high memory consumption. For the 12h format I don't know if the DIY app lets you include some code, in that case, it's easy:
if(hour>12)
hour=hour-12

javier87gav
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:25 pm

by javier87gav

mrlobber wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:09 am
I'm with Tobin on IF/TSS midride uselesness. At least one of them, as they're fairly easily to calculate from each other even in your head mid-ride.

However, kcal can be beneficial, especially if you're trying to optimize nutrition strategies (and I know coaches who like to give people workouts of type "spend 1000kcal riding before you start eating" and so on - not discussing whether these make sense here :D).
Another field which I personally use when racing is the direction, as paired with the wind knowledge, it allows you to quickly forecast / adjust your position in the pack.

Then again, both of these above are relatively rare use cases. But if you figure out where to put the direction (perhaps, by removing TSS/IF), I'm a completely happy user then.
I like that, I'll include a new option so you can decide if showing TSS or direction.

Thanks. Regards.

javier87gav
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:25 pm

by javier87gav

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:32 am
javier87gav wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:08 pm

The kcal helps me to know when I have to eat something. For example, 1 energetic bar every 400cal and 1 gel every 600cal (I made up these numbers)
The NP and IF are really helpful for me, not only at the end of the workout but during the workout. For example when I ride for 2 hours I try to keep my IF close to the 90% during the whole ride.
About the TSS.. I don't really need it during the ride but you know.. when you're on a long ride or even when you're on a hard interval on the trainer, sometimes you need to cheat or distract your mind thinking in any other thing but your pain, looking at the statistics and thinking about that, at least for me, make it easier.

My reasoning:

Counting kcals is misleading. You don't need nutrition for a high-intensity 1hr ride. You might want it for a high intensity 2hr ride, but kcal isn't the right metric to gauge when to eat. If you're riding steady mid Z4 for 2 hours, you should simply be taking in 30-40g of carbs every 30min regardless of calories burned because your body converts simple sugars into glycogen at a steady rate regardless of intensity. For longer endurance/tempo rides, the same strategy applies. You are fighting a constant deficit so the strategy is simply to take as many carbs as your body can convert back into energy when able.

With any structured workout, I already know the IF and TSS before the very first pedal stroke. On less structured rides, but still rides where I care about IF/TSS, I'm familiar enough with the route/duration to get a sense of what those values will be...within probably 5-10% accuracy.
I like data and if I could I'd put thousand of metrics in the screen hehe. Anyway, you're so worried about the kcal, IF and TSS. It's just a line, about 5-10% of the whole screen, is not that bad.. I guess we can live with that line.

Question, are you using the app? In case not, will you use it if I modify something?

maxim809
Moderator
Posts: 406
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:28 am

by maxim809

Neat. Wish I had this app a decade ago. I used to have two pages dedicated to jam packing all the cumulative metrics so I have something to glance at every once in a while mid-ride. Your app is trying to approach that holy grail.

Nowadays I've swung back to the opposite end of the pendulum where I only look at 1 or 2 live metrics at a time. Typically, it's watts, cadence, or HR. Right now, I'm focusing on W'Bal and %LTHR in tandem with watts.

Being able to see in real time W'Bal and %LTHR as a function of critical power and watts would be pretty unique. But perhaps a very niche thing so may not see widespread use or popularity. I've been doing W' depletion analysis post-ride.
This app attempts the live telemetry of W': https://apps.garmin.com/en-US/apps/6dcf ... 0647b003#0
Currently building a: Basso Diamante

javier87gav
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:25 pm

by javier87gav

javier87gav wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:43 pm
mrlobber wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:09 am
I'm with Tobin on IF/TSS midride uselesness. At least one of them, as they're fairly easily to calculate from each other even in your head mid-ride.

However, kcal can be beneficial, especially if you're trying to optimize nutrition strategies (and I know coaches who like to give people workouts of type "spend 1000kcal riding before you start eating" and so on - not discussing whether these make sense here :D).
Another field which I personally use when racing is the direction, as paired with the wind knowledge, it allows you to quickly forecast / adjust your position in the pack.

Then again, both of these above are relatively rare use cases. But if you figure out where to put the direction (perhaps, by removing TSS/IF), I'm a completely happy user then.
I like that, I'll include a new option so you can decide if showing TSS or direction.

Thanks. Regards.
Check version 2.5, I've added this feature
Last edited by javier87gav on Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

javier87gav
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:25 pm

by javier87gav

maxim809 wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:39 pm
Neat. Wish I had this app a decade ago. I used to have two pages dedicated to jam packing all the cumulative metrics so I have something to glance at every once in a while mid-ride. Your app is trying to approach that holy grail.

Nowadays I've swung back to the opposite end of the pendulum where I only look at 1 or 2 live metrics at a time. Typically, it's watts, cadence, or HR. Right now, I'm focusing on W'Bal and %LTHR in tandem with watts.

Being able to see in real time W'Bal and %LTHR as a function of critical power and watts would be pretty unique. But perhaps a very niche thing so may not see widespread use or popularity. I've been doing W' depletion analysis post-ride.
This app attempts the live telemetry of W': https://apps.garmin.com/en-US/apps/6dcf ... 0647b003#0
I like W' bal and I know the basics, however I'd have to study deeply how it works in order to code it. I think I'll give it a try when a have some free time.

by Weenie


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