Altitude Training - Your Experience

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FlatlandClimber
Posts: 2491
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm

by FlatlandClimber

Hey there,
I have been on vacation in the Alps for two weeks, and did a lot of riding. Absolutely beautiful.
I stayed at a hotel at over 1500m of elevation and rode between 600 and 2000 meters above sea level. I hadn't done a power test in ages, but do a lot of structured training at high intensity. There were some KOMs here and there, that I wanted to test my power on (couldn't quite snatch the KOM from the Bora guys though), and had some new Power PBs (352W for 15 minutes, 362W for 12 minutes, 312W for 80Minutes). I was pretty happy with all that.
Now that I have returned home (50m above sea level), I have felt great. During an intervals session (2*20min at 340 was the goal) I did 345W during the first, and really felt so fresh and great after it, that I felt like pushing the limit on that second set... So I went for it and did 371W for 20 minutes. Way past anything I had ever done. I didn't even feel bad after it and vomited my lungs out. I had a lot more fun than during any FTP test I have ever done.

So I started thinking to myself. Am I a great responder to altitude training? I feel like I am, although this might be placebo.
There are definitely merits to altitude training, that are well documented, and many pros do that.
Two weeks of spending at least 12 hours per day at altitude already have an effect on red blood cell production, and the effects can last for around 4 weeks. I am planning to take part in a few higher alps events, like Haute Route, and am looking to "prepare" my body by staying at altitude for 2 to 3 weeks prior to the events.

Have you had experiences with altitude training, and how where they? What are your recommendations?
Many thanks and looking forward to your input.
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SuecoGuatemalteco
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by SuecoGuatemalteco

Impressive fitness gains you've made and I guess you really smashed your all-time 20 minute power?
Altitude training is tricky and there are many ideas of how to do it. I've been spending the last couple of years 50/50 at sea level and at 2,300 metres of altitude. It takes me more or less a month to get used to the high altitude, in that month its very hard to train with intensity and the wattage is really low in general Even when I am fit at altitude and acclimitized the wattage is very low. I have a theory that the training I do in the mountains won't help me at sea level because I can never sustain my sea level wattage up at 2300+ metres. 85% of my racing takes part at 1000+ metres and 75% at 2000+ metres so my goal is always to become a better climber at altitude.

It looks like you've found something that really works for you and I think you should replicate it, not just the time and the altitude but also the training in general, the volume and intensitiy, intervals, nutrition and so on. I'm sure you can make it even better since it was your first time. If you are going to race at altitude it's crucial to be used to the altitude in my opinion. But to race well at sub 1000 metres I think it's better to stay at lower altitude where you can push high power in training.
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mrlobber
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by mrlobber

It's sort of easy to check: do bloodwork before and after your time in the mountains.
If that has not changed, the results you see are because of your training (maybe you did more, maybe you rested more with less stress from the job etc) instead of blood improvements.

My n = 1 experience: 2 years ago, in 2nd part of season my blood values were crappy as hell, right on the lower limits of clinically acceptable hemoglobin and erythrocytes. Spent 10 days of vacation in Switzerland/France border region, including some monster rides of 4000+ m climbing, returned home and found everything had normalized.
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Timmo
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:31 pm

by Timmo

I think there are 2 separate effects to altitude readiness:

1st, due to different partial pressure of CO2 and O2 your blood chemistry, oxygen uptake and co2 rejection changes. 2 or 3 days at altitude plus drinking lots of fluid will help you sort it all out and feel ok. Definitely recommend before haute route etc. This will wear off in about a week

2nd, you produce more red blood cells, but I think this isn't really going to happen to a great extent in just 2 weeks. But if you do produce them they will last a few weeks.

But if you get the chance for a couple of weeks altitude training, go for it!
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maxim809
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by maxim809

SuecoGuatemalteco wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:49 am
I've been spending the last couple of years 50/50 at sea level and at 2,300 metres of altitude.

I have a theory that the training I do in the mountains won't help me at sea level because I can never sustain my sea level wattage up at 2300+ metres. 85% of my racing takes part at 1000+ metres and 75% at 2000+ metres so my goal is always to become a better climber at altitude.

It looks like you've found something that really works for you and I think you should replicate it, not just the time and the altitude but also the training in general, the volume and intensitiy, intervals, nutrition and so on. I'm sure you can make it even better since it was your first time. If you are going to race at altitude it's crucial to be used to the altitude in my opinion. But to race well at sub 1000 metres I think it's better to stay at lower altitude where you can push high power in training.
Coach Dylan just summarized some altitude training white papers to confirm your theory is correct!! :beerchug:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi8o4Z9Mc60

That said, he does go on to show there exists research that everyone responds differently to altitude training, and results are highly individual. :)

dmp
Posts: 422
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 8:31 pm
Location: Seattle

by dmp

> the training I do in the mountains won't help me at sea level because I can never sustain my sea level wattage up at 2300+ metres.

This is probably correct, and is the basis of train low sleep high strategies- see https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/ful ... al52G1eBxW

But there is considerable controversy about whether this effect has to do with increased red cell mass. It might not. See https://doi.org/10.1152/japplphysiol.00820.2005. There are changes in oxygen uptake and offloading, mitochondrial and capillary density, and others, although my colleage Ben Levine would argue that the red cell mass effect IS the primary mechanism (https://journals.physiology.org/doi/ful ... d=16227463). Some people are genetically blessed with faster and more efficient acclimitazation, which will also make a difference in a short period like 2 weeks.

(FWIW, some of my research is in high altitude physiology)

DavG
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:41 am

by DavG

I did a lot of training when I was quarantined at my parents' house. They have a great park nearby, and I explored it all during my quarantine. Then I started going to the stadium to work out. It was great. I rode my bike to prepare for the marathon, and I still try to train hard.

Lozaen
Posts: 124
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:44 pm
Location: Switzerland

by Lozaen

@Flatlandclimber
I would expect that the two weeks of proper training during your holidays, which was probably different to your normal training, gave you the boost.
In my personal experience, two weeks is a bit on the short side for proper altitude related benefits.
You mentioned that you typically do a lot of hard work. During your stay in the alps you probably did more easy paced rides. This probably boosted your fitness.

Which Haute Route events are you planning to participate? I was looking into the Mt. Ventoux event. Even though I would have loved to do the one in the Valais region, but due to a time conflict, won't be able to attend.
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trainingpartner
Posts: 126
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:33 pm

by trainingpartner

FlatlandClimber wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:38 pm
Hey there,
I have been on vacation in the Alps for two weeks, and did a lot of riding. Absolutely beautiful.
I stayed at a hotel at over 1500m of elevation and rode between 600 and 2000 meters above sea level. I hadn't done a power test in ages, but do a lot of structured training at high intensity. There were some KOMs here and there, that I wanted to test my power on (couldn't quite snatch the KOM from the Bora guys though), and had some new Power PBs (352W for 15 minutes, 362W for 12 minutes, 312W for 80Minutes). I was pretty happy with all that.
Now that I have returned home (50m above sea level), I have felt great. During an intervals session (2*20min at 340 was the goal) I did 345W during the first, and really felt so fresh and great after it, that I felt like pushing the limit on that second set... So I went for it and did 371W for 20 minutes. Way past anything I had ever done. I didn't even feel bad after it and vomited my lungs out. I had a lot more fun than during any FTP test I have ever done.

So I started thinking to myself. Am I a great responder to altitude training? I feel like I am, although this might be placebo.
There are definitely merits to altitude training, that are well documented, and many pros do that.
Two weeks of spending at least 12 hours per day at altitude already have an effect on red blood cell production, and the effects can last for around 4 weeks. I am planning to take part in a few higher alps events, like Haute Route, and am looking to "prepare" my body by staying at altitude for 2 to 3 weeks prior to the events.

Have you had experiences with altitude training, and how where they? What are your recommendations?
Many thanks and looking forward to your input.
Welcome to the hunting high club, I hold altitude camps for a reason!

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