Running - How To

A light bike doesn't replace good fitness.

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robeambro
Posts: 1826
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

Hi all, I am currently following a very basic cycling training schedule, anything between 5 and 10+ hours a week (mostly depending on whether I can manage a long weekend ride outdoors.. Which is not easy as of late, as you can imagine), with 2 or 3 high intensity sessions depending on how I feel.

Lately, for many reasons (including it being more lockdown-friendly), I've decided I want to try and up my running. Not looking to get fast at it or anything. One of the reasons why I want to run is that sometimes when I cycle my asthma still kicks in whenever I get close to threshold and I feel like with running I could more easily build a "bigger aerobic engine" to avoid that.. Which may or may not be true, but still. I like the idea of it, and whoever has asthma can probably relate to some extent).

I am 100% aware that specificity is king, and that if I could train 20h per week between running and cycling, I'd be a better cyclist by cycling 20h rather than cycling 18h and running 2h. Fully aware. I'm surely looking to improve as a cyclist, but definitely not interested in pushing to hit my genetic ability boundaries..

That said, if I wanted to include some running (low intensity, initially not more than 4-5k per session which I can currently manage easily, looking to build to 10k+) during my weekly training, is there a way I can do it so that it does not do any damage to my cycling training (eg by hampering recovery)? Should it be on the same day as I do my intervals? Or when I have active recovery days? Or maybe during a recovery week? Should I do it right after a cycling workout?

Nefarious86
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by Nefarious86

Start slow, start short, start easy.

You will be fit enough that you will do damage very easily.

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Martin.F
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Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 9:21 pm
Location: Norway, Drammen

by Martin.F

I was in your exact position about 20 months ago. Since then I have done a 130+km/32hr trailrunning race, so I would say I have some experience. As Nefarious stated, start slow, short and easy. My calves and ankles failed me the first months trying to chew over too much. Start with 3k if that's necessary - whatever distance it takes YOU to feel completely fine after. You should not feel weak ankles or an irritated calf. If you do - reduce distance and/or pace.

Key points that helped me:

* I did my runs on days that my muscles was recovered. So active recovery days, not after intervals. You want your joints and ligaments fresh to handle the abuse
* Keep short fast strides. Aim for a high cadence, and not to put your foot too far out in front of your center of gravity
* Run trails if you can
* Make sure your ankles, calves and knees are completely rested before doing another run.
* Running puts a lot of stress on your joints. If you're not already stretching and doing some injury-prevention, start doing it.
* Calf-raises when you're brushing teeth
* Consistency beats training-type. Its better to do 3 runs at whatever intensity than to do a theoretically perfect interval-workout, but having to rest 1 week before being able to run again

Hope this helps!

joejack951
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by joejack951

All I have to add is start with good, fresh running shoes. Don't be cheap and wear your 10 year old running shoes that have zero life in them and don't be macho and try running in a 'racing flat' or otherwise minimal shoe. Get something with some decent cushion that fits well. Your ankles, knees, and hips will thank you.

robeambro
Posts: 1826
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

Thanks guys. I will make sure I follow all of the above.
Martin.F wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:51 pm
I was in your exact position about 20 months ago. Since then I have done a 130+km/32hr trailrunning race, so I would say I have some experience.
Thanks Martin and congratulations on the achievement, my knees hurt only thinking about it! Out of curiosity, after all of this running, how's your cycling ability changed in 20 months?

rides4beer
Posts: 690
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:27 am
Location: VA

by rides4beer

Ultra runner turned cyclist here.

As mentioned, start slow and easy, you should be able to carry on full conversations while running at an easy effort (notice I said effort, not pace, too many people get hung up on pace, which can change day to day based on multiple factors). I've found that easy running has no impact on my cycling, only hard efforts, intervals/races/etc..

Specificity is def true, but running will help your cycling more than cycling helps your running.

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LouisN
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by LouisN

robeambro wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:55 am
Thanks guys. I will make sure I follow all of the above.
Martin.F wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:51 pm
I was in your exact position about 20 months ago. Since then I have done a 130+km/32hr trailrunning race, so I would say I have some experience.
Thanks Martin and congratulations on the achievement, my knees hurt only thinking about it! Out of curiosity, after all of this running, how's your cycling ability changed in 20 months?
I also started running 2 years ago. Well I tried for a few years prior to that but always ended up hurt, for all the reasons cited.
I started with a 10 weeks beginners plan and ended up successfully running 15 km's after 13 weeks.
Last winter I entered a runner's club and got my arse seriously kicked all the time.
It mostly helped me with achieving better overall muscle "balance", core strenght and stability.
But I lost about 30 watts FTP, and approx. 10-15% in all Z5-6-7. I have to reduce running to strict minimum and focus on cycling if I want to get back to my best. Nothing scientific, but running also helped with my HR. I have lower HR with same intensity efforts now. Maybe I'm just getting older too :? :lol:

Louis :)

joejack951
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by joejack951

The number 1 way running benefited my cycling was weight loss. I never got below 70 kg. on just cycling and generally hovered around 73 kg. Running got my weight down to 65 kg. at times and generally around 68 kg. Not a huge difference but I definitely can feel it when climbing.

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Martin.F
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Location: Norway, Drammen

by Martin.F

I have the same experience, running helps your cycling more than cycling helps your running. My loss of cycling fitness is more due to dropping 7 hr/week of training rather than introducing running hehe.

When I first tried to combine both, the sore calves and beaten muscles reduced my cycling interval-capacity by a lot, and therefore power at high intensity also declined. I would do running as an alternative to the 1hr easy spin active recovery type of workout if I were to combine both. But, lots of triathletes can combine both at really high levels, but it requires consistency over time.

robeambro
Posts: 1826
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

rides4beer wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:25 pm
I've found that easy running has no impact on my cycling, only hard efforts, intervals/races/etc..

Specificity is def true, but running will help your cycling more than cycling helps your running.
Duly noted, thanks!
LouisN wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:30 pm
robeambro wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:55 am
Thanks guys. I will make sure I follow all of the above.
Martin.F wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:51 pm
I was in your exact position about 20 months ago. Since then I have done a 130+km/32hr trailrunning race, so I would say I have some experience.
Thanks Martin and congratulations on the achievement, my knees hurt only thinking about it! Out of curiosity, after all of this running, how's your cycling ability changed in 20 months?
I also started running 2 years ago. Well I tried for a few years prior to that but always ended up hurt, for all the reasons cited.
I started with a 10 weeks beginners plan and ended up successfully running 15 km's after 13 weeks.
Last winter I entered a runner's club and got my arse seriously kicked all the time.
It mostly helped me with achieving better overall muscle "balance", core strenght and stability.
But I lost about 30 watts FTP, and approx. 10-15% in all Z5-6-7. I have to reduce running to strict minimum and focus on cycling if I want to get back to my best. Nothing scientific, but running also helped with my HR. I have lower HR with same intensity efforts now. Maybe I'm just getting older too :? :lol:

Louis :)
Thanks Louis. Did you continue cycling as you did before? A drop of 30w is not quite small, so curious as to what triggered it. I guess you would have lost some power at threshold but gained endurance as your HR is lower?
joejack951 wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:36 pm
The number 1 way running benefited my cycling was weight loss. I never got below 70 kg. on just cycling and generally hovered around 73 kg. Running got my weight down to 65 kg. at times and generally around 68 kg. Not a huge difference but I definitely can feel it when climbing.
Well so long as it's body fat and not muscle it can't be that bad I guess! I'm actually looking to gain some weight since in Scotland we don't quite have any alpine mountains, and I reckon over 10-30m climbs I can do much better with some additional raw power..
Martin.F wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:47 pm
I have the same experience, running helps your cycling more than cycling helps your running. My loss of cycling fitness is more due to dropping 7 hr/week of training rather than introducing running hehe.

When I first tried to combine both, the sore calves and beaten muscles reduced my cycling interval-capacity by a lot, and therefore power at high intensity also declined. I would do running as an alternative to the 1hr easy spin active recovery type of workout if I were to combine both. But, lots of triathletes can combine both at really high levels, but it requires consistency over time.
I like the idea, the only problem is that I feel if I run only 1-2 per week I would not quite get to the point where it doesn't make me sore.. Hmm. So tricky.

AeroObsessive
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:42 am

by AeroObsessive

Not much to add to all of this, except that one of the best "running to cycling" transfers is running up hill. The biomechanics is as close as you can get running. There is less impact on the body and less chance on injury.

As always when undertaking any new activity, start slow and start small.

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LouisN
Posts: 3508
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:44 am
Location: Canada

by LouisN

LouisN wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:30 pm
robeambro wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:55 am
I also started running 2 years ago. Well I tried for a few years prior to that but always ended up hurt, for all the reasons cited.
I started with a 10 weeks beginners plan and ended up successfully running 15 km's after 13 weeks.
Last winter I entered a runner's club and got my arse seriously kicked all the time.
It mostly helped me with achieving better overall muscle "balance", core strenght and stability.
But I lost about 30 watts FTP, and approx. 10-15% in all Z5-6-7. I have to reduce running to strict minimum and focus on cycling if I want to get back to my best. Nothing scientific, but running also helped with my HR. I have lower HR with same intensity efforts now. Maybe I'm just getting older too :? :lol:

Louis :)
Thanks Louis. Did you continue cycling as you did before? A drop of 30w is not quite small, so curious as to what triggered it. I guess you would have lost some power at threshold but gained endurance as your HR is lower?

I had to cut back on cycling training because running is still a "new sport" for me, I think I still have some adaptations to develop to "absorb" the running and still recover well for bike workouts. And I'm not a featherweight at 76 kg. Running "hurts" the legs in a different way than cycling, for me at the least. And the "damage" to the legs seem to transfer in less top power for me, for now.
I'm not throwing the towel yet though. My goal is not to become some ultra distance runner, but like I wrote earlier for balance, overall stamina and stability.
FWIF I'm 53, my busiest summer cycling weeks are 13 hrs. If I throw in 2-3 hours of running, i have to cut back cycling, take one or two days off the bike.
Hope it helps.
Louis :)

mcfarton
Posts: 194
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:15 pm

by mcfarton

I started running more about 18 months ago. Living in Maryland with 2 young children running has become a great alternative to cycling. I will run in the cold and dark when I wouldn’t ride. It doesn’t take as long for my runs to give me the satisfaction of a great workout. I only ride roads and trail running has been a great compliment to it.

My running replaced some of my riding. So it took away from my cycling fitness. It took a while to work back up to where I was power wise before I started running. I don’t have the endurance I had before I started running. A lot of that has to do with I ride less with 2 young girls now.

Life shifts and changes every day. Do what makes you happy. If you enjoy running, run. I don’t worry about what it does to my bike. I feel like 3 runs per week is where you build running fitness. Less than that it can continue to make you feel like a beginner. Go for a nice


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willdsouth
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2022 6:48 pm

by willdsouth

Does your asthma tend to kick in when you approach your threshold in terms of a burst of exertion or towards the end of longer distance e.g. endurance?

stevec1975
Posts: 552
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:37 pm
Location: London

by stevec1975

I started as a cyclist many moons ago, started running as a way to keep mentally fresh, you get so much more bang for your buck with running (an hour of hard running = at least 2 hours cycling), in a time-pressed week, it is an easy way to keep improve your fitness.

Echo what others are saying here, start small, slow and intersperse with cycling, and you should keep relatively injury free.

I found, after focusing on running training for a marathon (did a sub 3) that my bike fitness seemed lower/muscles didn't like cycling for a few months afterwards, so it is important to mix it up if cycling is your main sport.

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