Stages Gen 3 vs Tacx Neo waaaay off

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spdntrxi
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by spdntrxi

glepore wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:33 pm
spdntrxi wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:53 am
jfranci3 wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:20 am
Did anyone mention the battery yet? High power numbers are either battery power level, battery contacts, or 0 offset.
0 offset maybe... but generally battery issues involve power spikes of gynormous levels (atleast on the stages)
Yes. And as an example, all pm's can be subject to an issue. Everyone loves the latest garmin pedals, right? Google garmin pedal battery fretting. To their credit, they're sending out a fix, but I've seen some files with crazy spikes from fellow riders.

My take on stages-they're not as bad as people claim across the board. Bad ones tend to be bad, but the company strives to fix. However, the game is changing and they are lagging. They've recently had to do a major price cut. The spider based meters are falling rapidly in price, into single sided territory (although they're Chinese, they work). Would I buy a stages today? Probably not.
indeed.. I've only bought one stages new (team discount) and that was gen1... many moons ago and I still use it (wife bikes).. all others either used. They serve a purpose and so far have been reliable for me....same with vectors.. I've had them them all Gen1,2 and 3... along with all the door issues on v3, which garmin sent me a new one.

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FIJIGabe
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by FIJIGabe

I think that the exact numbers are worthless, when comparing them against different manufacturers. What I look for is consistency between units. If the Stages gives you consistent numbers (and ask you presumably put it on your road bike, you can take it with you), that's what I would use. Personally, I have a Neo (2T), and at the suggestion of my coach, recently went back to using my Stages (left-only) PM for power numbers, rather than the Neo's built-in PM. I have several Gen 3 Stages PM's across a swath of bikes and they can provide me with consistent numbers, which I can compare from bike-to-bike. This is what I want.
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jfranci3
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by jfranci3

nickf wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:46 pm
glepore wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:21 am
nickf wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:34 pm
No other power meter yet. But will be picking up another one for my gravel bike once they are back in stock from Stages. Then I will be able to compare the two.

I did speak with a cycling coach today and gave him some of my ride data. I do ride with him regularly. With the numbers I gave him and what he knows about me he is confident that for whatever reason that Tacx is off. The stages numbers are more in line with what he knows about me and how I ride. Also like others said FTP # isn't the end all be all, as long as the data is consistent. I have a lot to learn. I will still try to track down another smart trainer to give it a go and see how it compares.
In my experience (I've had 6 or so stages of all gens thru here, along with quarq's, p2ms and srms) stages are pretty solid given the inherent limitations of 1sided power.

Just a note before you get a stages for a gravel bike, though, check for chainstay clearance first. Many gravel bikes have chainstay clearance issues with the pod when using cranks with "road" length spindles...including some that don't take crazy wide tires.
Yeah I think the stages is a no go on the checkpoint. Near the battery door of the stages housing it's 10mm but closer to the bb it's thins down even more. Using a sram red crank. I'm almost convinced it would technically fit but would leave no room for flex or a grain of sand.
Now you can get a Stages GRX PM. That’s give you 2.5mm more cleanence.

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by RyanH

To answer the OPs question, the number itself doesn't mean much, you need to use the number from the device you'll be training on, which is the Stages. There's no point using the Tacx because all data you'll record will need to be adjusted unless you're only recording efforts on the Tacx.
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AJS914
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by AJS914

If it were my 2 week old Stages I'd want to investigate whether it was off by 50 watts or not. Maybe he could:

Go ride another smart trainer at a bike store and compare numbers.

Bring a friend with another power meter over to the Tacx Neo guy's house and then you both ride and compare.

Call Stages. Maybe send it back. I gather they might check it out for free.

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by AJS914

I just wanted to report that I picked up a Stages Campagnolo a while back and just got around to installing it the other day.

I tested it against my Tacx Vortex Smart and it was mostly right on - within 5 watts at different power levels. That does mean it was off about 5% at 100 watts but less than 2% off at 300 watts. I could theoretically turn the calibration knob on my Vortex to make it closer to the Stages but it's close enough for my purposes.

The hardest part in comparing with a trainer is that the trainer reports very smooth power that doesn't fluctuate much and is slow to respond. The Stages can be all over the place. I did put a 3 second and 10 second data field on my Garmin and then would try and pedal very smoothly for 10 seconds.

Jugi
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by Jugi

Tacx claims <5% accuracy for the Vortex Smart. So yeah, your devices are in the correct ball park.

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by TobinHatesYou

Jugi wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:13 pm
Tacx claims <5% accuracy for the Vortex Smart. So yeah, your devices are in the correct ball park.

Their claims don't typically match reality with the Vortex unfortunately. The Vortex is a running joke on the many Zwift FB groups, as are a few other trainers known to inflate power output in excess of 20% from time to time.

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Leviathan
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by Leviathan

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:28 am
KCookie wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:52 am
I have a Kickr and was experiencing the same problem.The watt output just seemed to be way to low so I bought a 4iiii PM and straight away noticed a 40w difference. I would say the trainers are quite a bit out.

You have no benchmark with which to make this claim, so maybe don't?
I do: I ran a series of 4 way tests using two sets of assiomas (well actually a set and a half as I had a double and a single), , a crankarm powermeter and my piece of shit Kinetic trainer, and all the PMS were reading 40-50w higher than the trainer despite doing calibrations, and zeroing. Also, interestingly the data points when a buddy borrowed my assiomas and checked them were all incredibly cosistent with each other. Finally, although not relevant for ftp tests, the trainer /zwift interface suffers if the latency of the internet connection is - although ive a 50mb broandband apparently it has high latency as the signal has to leave the island and connect to zwift´s servers in the US. Which I have to say totally BAFFLES me but thats what both Zwift and my internet guy have confirmed.

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by TobinHatesYou

There is no internet latency with any sensor related data in Zwift. Zwift records the data it wants to a FIT file regardless of your connection. Try unplugging your net completely, everyone else will disappear, but that’s it.

You’re experiencing some sort of placebo.

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nickf
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by nickf

I just installed another Stages gen 3 on my other bike. Power number vs effort/ heart rate line up between the two. I did get a coach to help me dial everything in for my workouts and training. From the data he has been collecting, he believes the stages number over the Tacx numbers. In the end, the Stages provide consistent numbers. That's the important part. Ego aside I was really just curious if the Stages really was that far off. Now that I'm running 2 of them with near-identical numbers, I'm guessing that they are pretty accurate. ***granted I can't run them simultaneously.

Omiar
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by Omiar

nickf wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:04 pm
I just installed another Stages gen 3 on my other bike. Power number vs effort/ heart rate line up between the two. I did get a coach to help me dial everything in for my workouts and training. From the data he has been collecting, he believes the stages number over the Tacx numbers. In the end, the Stages provide consistent numbers. That's the important part. Ego aside I was really just curious if the Stages really was that far off. Now that I'm running 2 of them with near-identical numbers, I'm guessing that they are pretty accurate. ***granted I can't run them simultaneously.
If your numbers line up between the two, meaning they are same somewhere around +/- 5W, whats with the 'he believes the stages number over the Tacx numbers'?
And what's the actualy difference in consistency in your case?
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Mostlyharmless
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by Mostlyharmless

Thought everybody knew that Stages are terrible in term of accuracy already......


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glepore
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by glepore

Mostlyharmless wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:25 am
Thought everybody knew that Stages are terrible in term of accuracy already......


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Wrong assumption. Maybe not as precise as some others, but usually accurate enough. There's a difference...
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Mostlyharmless
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by Mostlyharmless

glepore wrote:
Mostlyharmless wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:25 am
Thought everybody knew that Stages are terrible in term of accuracy already......


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Wrong assumption. Maybe not as precise as some others, but usually accurate enough. There's a difference...
It all depends on how accurate is enough for us non-professionals...let’s say Stages are having tolerances within 5% in real road riding and I’m outputting 350w at the time, it would tell me my output is 368w. It’s kinda off to me. Despite that Stages often have tolerances more than 5% based on some tests I read about......


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