Alternative to Trainer Road

A light bike doesn't replace good fitness.

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trainerday
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:33 am

by trainerday

So a few people have mentioned https://trainerday.com. I am Alex from TrainerDay. So in contrast to TrainerRoad we are targeting the self-coached cyclist. A bit more do it yourself. We do have a new training iOS and Android training apps and a winter "hard times" plan for 4 months for $12. You can see the app details here https://trainerday.com/indoor-cycling-training-app/

I can say we have overy 11,000 public workouts so by far the largest workout library. The workouts are free. You can even use the app for free with 20 useful included workouts.

If I can answer any questions or if you guys have any special requirements let me know. We are coming out with power match next week which can be very useful to anyone with a wheel-on trainer.

Andrew69
Posts: 593
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:52 am
Location: ɹǝpunuʍop

by Andrew69

robertbb wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:48 am
WKO5 will give you insight into your training that can be found nowhere else.
I used to have an early version of WKO (V2 maybe??) and while it was OK, Golden Cheetah is just as good as the early versions....but WKO5 is on another level now

Recently bought a license and the way you can dive down into your data, especially with all the YT videos by Tim Cusick to explain it all, is crazy.

Already changed stuff up and now understand WHY Im doing what Im doing and the videos give you more than enough information that you can self coach and tailor workouts to exactly what you require, rather than some cookiecutter workout

Worth every cent IMO

The only other thing I would consider over winter would be a Fulgaz membership (but it just doesnt get that cold here in Australia)
Riding on an indoor trainer with videos of famous climbs or routes would really take away the boredom and make it far more interesting.

by Weenie


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Dorpel
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:06 pm

by Dorpel

trainerday wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:05 am
If I can answer any questions or if you guys have any special requirements let me know. We are coming out with power match next week which can be very useful to anyone with a wheel-on trainer.
I really like your work. I've been using it since ErgDB. The Trainingpeaks integration is just awesome. In these winter days i ride the workouts with Zwift to keep it a bit more attractive. But normally i just use my Garmin Edge.

eeney
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:09 am

by eeney

Tried Xert? Very interesting concept, some great workouts and great analyss. Xert recommends workouts based on your fitness, objectives, target dates and form.... I used it for 12 months and liked it.

Personally I like Zwift, however I'm part of a group training programme where the coach provides workouts, I do the workouts on Zwift, but then use zwift for social rides and Team TTs with local friends on 'non training' days.

Personally the graph/chart style workout view of TR needs more self motivation than I have, Zwift provides more visual feedback, even when I'm doing my own workouts, for example, if doing a 1 hour sweet spot, I might do it whilst climing Alpe de Zwift, just for the visual feedback and motivation.... however, I know many who prefer TR and Sufferfest

jlok
Posts: 2400
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

eeney wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:08 am
Tried Xert? Very interesting concept, some great workouts and great analyss. Xert recommends workouts based on your fitness, objectives, target dates and form.... I used it for 12 months and liked it.

Personally I like Zwift, however I'm part of a group training programme where the coach provides workouts, I do the workouts on Zwift, but then use zwift for social rides and Team TTs with local friends on 'non training' days.

Personally the graph/chart style workout view of TR needs more self motivation than I have, Zwift provides more visual feedback, even when I'm doing my own workouts, for example, if doing a 1 hour sweet spot, I might do it whilst climing Alpe de Zwift, just for the visual feedback and motivation.... however, I know many who prefer TR and Sufferfest
Xert's discovery of your ability and subsequent prediction of your TTE are very useful features. I no longer depend on FTP test after using Xert.
Rikulau V9 DB Custom < BMC TM02 < Litespeed T1sl Disc < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

Cord1138
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:26 pm

by Cord1138

jlok wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:10 pm
Xert's discovery of your ability and subsequent prediction of your TTE are very useful features. I no longer depend on FTP test after using Xert.
Another vote for Xert. The algorithm negates the need for FTP tests and it generates a lot of useful data. It's not easy to get into as you have to spend some time on learning how it works.

I tried Sufferfest and Zwift, but settled on Xert as I just wanted training and data, without the fancy UI's/Video's etc

DirtiousDirte
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2020 3:18 pm

by DirtiousDirte

Another one for Xert.

I have been using it for about 2 years now and like it a lot in terms of training. Their Garmin data fields are a great way to push yourself out doors. Their website isn't the best for nitty-gritty nerdy analysis but after enough time I find their modelling quite accurate.

jlok
Posts: 2400
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

Cord1138 wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:56 pm
jlok wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:10 pm
Xert's discovery of your ability and subsequent prediction of your TTE are very useful features. I no longer depend on FTP test after using Xert.
Another vote for Xert. The algorithm negates the need for FTP tests and it generates a lot of useful data. It's not easy to get into as you have to spend some time on learning how it works.

I tried Sufferfest and Zwift, but settled on Xert as I just wanted training and data, without the fancy UI's/Video's etc
I find it especially difficult to understand Xert when one is strongly rooted on the FTP or Training Peaks ATP concept.
Rikulau V9 DB Custom < BMC TM02 < Litespeed T1sl Disc < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

Andrew69
Posts: 593
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:52 am
Location: ɹǝpunuʍop

by Andrew69

jlok wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:10 pm
eeney wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:08 am
Tried Xert? Very interesting concept, some great workouts and great analyss. Xert recommends workouts based on your fitness, objectives, target dates and form.... I used it for 12 months and liked it.

Personally I like Zwift, however I'm part of a group training programme where the coach provides workouts, I do the workouts on Zwift, but then use zwift for social rides and Team TTs with local friends on 'non training' days.

Personally the graph/chart style workout view of TR needs more self motivation than I have, Zwift provides more visual feedback, even when I'm doing my own workouts, for example, if doing a 1 hour sweet spot, I might do it whilst climing Alpe de Zwift, just for the visual feedback and motivation.... however, I know many who prefer TR and Sufferfest
Xert's discovery of your ability and subsequent prediction of your TTE are very useful features. I no longer depend on FTP test after using Xert.
Was it Coggan that said " the best predictor of performance, is preformance itself"?
By that I mean while you may no longer conduct "formal" FTP testing, if you dont go all out for "around an hour" every so often, how does the program actually predict the performance?
WKO5 also predicts FTP, TTE, etc, but it is based on actual performances in the preceeding 90 days
Ive found it to be very accurate and while it is nice not to do "formal" testing, I still need to go flat out for "around an hour" from time to time to see exactly where Im at and to check the model is still correct for me and my current training load/intensity/program

jlok
Posts: 2400
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

Andrew69 wrote:
Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:40 am
jlok wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:10 pm
eeney wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:08 am
Tried Xert? Very interesting concept, some great workouts and great analyss. Xert recommends workouts based on your fitness, objectives, target dates and form.... I used it for 12 months and liked it.

Personally I like Zwift, however I'm part of a group training programme where the coach provides workouts, I do the workouts on Zwift, but then use zwift for social rides and Team TTs with local friends on 'non training' days.

Personally the graph/chart style workout view of TR needs more self motivation than I have, Zwift provides more visual feedback, even when I'm doing my own workouts, for example, if doing a 1 hour sweet spot, I might do it whilst climing Alpe de Zwift, just for the visual feedback and motivation.... however, I know many who prefer TR and Sufferfest
Xert's discovery of your ability and subsequent prediction of your TTE are very useful features. I no longer depend on FTP test after using Xert.
Was it Coggan that said " the best predictor of performance, is preformance itself"?
By that I mean while you may no longer conduct "formal" FTP testing, if you dont go all out for "around an hour" every so often, how does the program actually predict the performance?
WKO5 also predicts FTP, TTE, etc, but it is based on actual performances in the preceeding 90 days
Ive found it to be very accurate and while it is nice not to do "formal" testing, I still need to go flat out for "around an hour" from time to time to see exactly where Im at and to check the model is still correct for me and my current training load/intensity/program
Yea, and I didn't say I don't do any test, I just no longer rely on traditional fixed 20-min test).

It is exactly the magic of the Xert (and WKO5 if you will). What Xert does more than WKO5 are the MPA and TTE Garmin CIQ datafields. They are almost real-time pacers enabled by the Xert algorithm.

Every 2-4 weeks (depends on my mood or what kind of training I'm working on), I just test my fitness signature (FTP/TTE/etc in WKO's term) by riding as hard as possible (like riding up a 13min hill or just 3min breakaway/chasing my friends in groupride...). I'd watch the datafields and see me emptying my tank. If I'm able to surpass it, Xert will get me a new signature that reflects my improvement. So yes, "tests" are still needed but it could be any work hard enough above "FTP". Even a 10-sec max sprint will do.

I think FTP test has a flawed assumption (or best compromise) that all riders have the same TTE capacity, and it still rely on the thinking of normalizing work as if it's evenly paced? It works for maybe 80% of the riders? But WKO5 and Xert has more to offer I guess.

Apart from the normal datafields, they even created this "Segment Hunter" and can pace you to "emptying your tank" right at the end so that you will get a fitness signature update. It's a great tool for "test" and ITT pacing.

https://apps.garmin.com/en-US/apps/b627 ... 0b99a135f3
Rikulau V9 DB Custom < BMC TM02 < Litespeed T1sl Disc < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

cheapvega
Posts: 388
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:12 pm

by cheapvega

Ooooh I really like that. I agree that the closer "tests" are to the actual riding you do the more useful/relevant they are. I am not a powerhouse at all but I found that I was at my peak performance (MPH on a given ride) by just doing 2 unstructured rides a week

Xert being a subscription is a total dealbreaker though.

Question about WK05- will it let me schedule workouts in the future without a premium Training Peaks membership?

jlok
Posts: 2400
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

Yeah but it's very cheap and when people here have N+M WW bikes here... maybe give it a try for one month? Just the cost of a pair of bar tapes.
Rikulau V9 DB Custom < BMC TM02 < Litespeed T1sl Disc < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

glepore
Posts: 1408
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:42 pm
Location: Virginia USA

by glepore

Xert, in my experience, isn't a whole lot better than GC in terms of figuring out threshold. But it does allow for auto synch. If you have a garmin headunit the MPA is very nice, but useless to Wahoo folks. Their training recommendations tend to be geared to folks that don't need much recovery, so ymmv.
I don't understand its model all of the time, yesterday it dropped my ftp by 10% suddenly. Now, granted, I've been doing a bunch of base stuff recently but still....
Cysco Ti custom Campy SR mechanical (6.9);Berk custom (5.6); Serotta Ottrott(6.8) ; Anvil Custom steel Etap;1996 Colnago Technos Record

jlok
Posts: 2400
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

glepore wrote:
Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:01 pm
Xert, in my experience, isn't a whole lot better than GC in terms of figuring out threshold. But it does allow for auto synch. If you have a garmin headunit the MPA is very nice, but useless to Wahoo folks. Their training recommendations tend to be geared to folks that don't need much recovery, so ymmv.
I don't understand its model all of the time, yesterday it dropped my ftp by 10% suddenly. Now, granted, I've been doing a bunch of base stuff recently but still....
If you have been doing base you may consider using No Decay or simply do a Breakthrough from time to time. That dropped "FTP" (Xert don't really say FTP I think) just make you easier to breakthrough again.

I did base for last December and at the start of January I did a "test" and boom the signature is improved beyond my believe.

BTW, you did a near breakthough so that Xert adjusted your TP down 10%?

ed: Visit that FB user group and you can find answers from Xert crews, and lots of useful training stuffs there https://www.facebook.com/groups/XertUsers
Rikulau V9 DB Custom < BMC TM02 < Litespeed T1sl Disc < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

cheapvega
Posts: 388
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:12 pm

by cheapvega

jlok wrote:
Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:43 pm
Yeah but it's very cheap and when people here have N+M WW bikes here... maybe give it a try for one month? Just the cost of a pair of bar tapes.
For $8/month forever it has to be way better than GC or WK05, which doesn't seem to be the case. I only have 1 bike and prefer to own software.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



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