Cycling, dieting and bonking

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SilentDrone
Posts: 254
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:55 pm

by SilentDrone

Today I bonked on an evening ride. Nothing like that has ever happened to me before. About 30k into a 45k ride I got lightheaded and dizzy, cramped big time, and lost all strength to produce any power. The more I tried to push through it the worse I cramped and the more dizzy I got. I had cliff bars and plenty of fluid and consumed all of that but it didn’t held.

I think this was partly because I’ve been dieting to lose some weight (down 14 lbs!). I ate only a salad for lunch and I had been working in the yard/sun for several hours before the ride which I think didn’t help. I took some cliff bars and munched two down as I was rolling out, but that didn’t help.

Do you have any pointers for how to avoid this from happening again?

Do you have any tips about dieting and cycling in general? Any resources you could share?

I’m using an app called Noom to help me lose some pounds and it’s been useful, but for exercise it encourages things like “walk for 10 mins” or “be sure to stand up every couple of hours.” Lol. It’s not geared towards the cycling enthusiast.




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dastott
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Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:35 pm

by dastott

I am no expert but I only do fasted rides in the morning. I find I can lose weight easily this way, if necessary.

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Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

I have a tip: how about a little common sense.

You can't do any serious riding and not eat seriously. You want to lose weight? Ride as much as you can and eat regularely but just cut the portion size down a bit. If you are looking to lose say 20 pounds, plan to do it over the course of a year. Fasting and trying to lose the weight quickly means you will definitely have some bad moments on the bike like you described.
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Lewn777
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by Lewn777

I have been toying with diet and exercise for a few years. I often do some kind of reduced calorie intake and cycling and sometimes fasted rides. There are so many differences of opinion even with professionals take what I'm sayingwith a pinch of salt, but do that with all health advice.

It's good because your body can get very good at burning fat stores instead of food, but on a 45k ride, well that's a bit short unless you are pushing along in pretty seriously high zones. I do enduro rides and find eating solid foods to be really tough, and much prefer fluids and gel type foods, so I'm often prone to bonking on endurance 200km or longer rides, but I hate plastic packaged highly processed foods.

I think really the best option is to cut the calories in the evening but give yourself adequate fuel and nutrients at breakfast and at lunch before the ride. I recommend following everything on cronometer.com or myfitnesspal.com etc. Make sure you are getting enough vitamins, minerals, lipids and carbs and just stay 500 cals a day under what you are burning and your basal for a gradual half kg a week weight loss. Sometimes on a seditary no exercise day it can suprise you how little you can consume, and a day with a long ride how much you really need to eat, but the temptation is to reward yourself with low nutrient garbage like beer or junk food.

You can go riding on fasted type days, maybe 500-750cals but it should be strictly zone 1 HR stuff and nothing for more than an hour.

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dgasmd
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by dgasmd

Your particular episode sounds to me more like a case of serious dehydration more than “bonding” due to exhausted glycogen reserves. You didn’t say the grade of the road you were riding on for that distance. Could have been 65000 ft of climbing or 3 ft, but even at serious grade, I’d look at other reasons and seriously more dehydration in this case.

One can use many approaches to loose weight, gain performance, etc. Most “menu or recipe versions” are based on everything but true proven and sound science. Up to you to interpret the data in the end!!!

zefs
Posts: 436
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:40 pm

by zefs

Start by weighing yourself before the ride then after the ride to see how much fluid you loose then adjust fluid intake depending on ride intensity and duration. Others sweat little, others sweat a lot and lose a lot of sodium so depending on which category you fall into you adjust sodium intake too.

Keep light meals like salads for dinner time or last meal. If you have reduced calorie intake for weight loss it should be around 400-500 cal while maintaining exercise. Depending on other stress factors on your life adjust the intensity of your rides and fuel better when you intend to go hard.

Don't wait to bonk to start eating, eat small portions often (if it's a long ride) or eat a meal 2-3 hours before the ride.

iheartbianchi
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Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:17 am

by iheartbianchi

Doesn't sound like bonking at all. Sounds more likely connected to your dieting. Diziness, low blood pressure, general fatigue and weakness, etc., are all linked to aggressive diets. It could also be dehydration or some heat related stress, but your statements on diet and eating only a salad are big red flags for me.

I've dealt with many athletes and the one thing they all have in common is the intense pressure to minimize body fat and develop proper muscular proportions relative to their activities. It's a very very thin line between losing just enough weight but having enough energy to continue training effectively. We are talking about 3-6% body fat percentages at the elite level, where even 1 pound can be the difference between being able to train, or lying in bed with no energy. So we measure body fat every week. We also have a team chef and nutrionists, and most importantly, each athlete is carefully and obsessively tracking their daily caloric intake (in terms of carbs, proteins, fats and also key minerals). This is how we make it work safely.

More often than not, amateurs don't have the nutrionists, or the frequent and regular testing, or the chef, or the discipline to carefully count their calories and carb/protein/fat intake. Chances are, these amateurs who are also trying to diet are probably going to be far too aggressive in the diet. Same theory applies to training...amateurs left to their own devices generally take things too hard, I blame movies like Rocky, and the desire to want short and fast results above all else...no pain no gain...yeah right.

If you are a trained athlete, losing even 1 pound a week is borderline dangerous. For untrained athletes, well anything can go really, and my take is you are somewhere in between. But given that one of our biggest concern when dealing with athletes are eating disorders and other adverse health consequences of aggressive diets (skeletal, muscular and neurological damage, not to mention hormonal imbalances and degradation), we are extremely watchful and you are exhibiting two of the most classic symptoms (diziness and low energy).

My general rule of thumbs when dealing with athletes who are trying to safely (and SLOWLY) lose weight are as follows:

1) Eat until you are no longer hungry, not until you are full
2) Find something to cut out of your diet entirely each week - soda, chocolate, candy, chips
3) Find some healthy staple that can tide you over when you are really hungry between meals - energy bars are generally terrible for this as they are very simple carbs that get digested extremely quickly and leave you feeling hungry again. Think brocoli, apples, a can of tuna, cottage cheese, carrots
4) Avoid junk calories or inefficient calories - otherwise healthy but really inefficient from a dieting perspective are foods such as white bread, nuts, cheese...replace instead with brown rice, whole grain breads, couscous, chicken breast, tuna

After a few months of this you will probably start going crazy. Eating healthy really tastes like crap after a few months, I don't care what the vegans or anyone else tells you (or is trying to sell you). You will develop extreme urges to head to the supermarket and drool over the boxes of donuts, cookies, all the meats. Just know that this is temporary, and once you have hit your target weight, you can start eating more regularly, but continue to limit the things that you have cut from your diet (soda, sweets, fried stuff).

And whatever you do, don't do vegan or keto if the sole purpose is to lose weight. Those are lifestyle choices based on some greater life philosophy and are not even close to being effective diet plans for endurance athletes.
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SilentDrone
Posts: 254
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:55 pm

by SilentDrone

Thank you everyone for the input. Reading your responses makes me think that you are correct. It was probably dehydration more than anything else. I may well have been dehydrated when I started the ride.

I think what I’d like to do is find some kind of an amateur coach or some other resources that can help me wrap my head around this. There’s so much information and so many opinions available on the Internet that it’s really hard to know what is and what isn’t, and then how to tailor that to my own circumstances.

Can anyone suggest a resource?


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gurk700
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Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:40 pm

by gurk700

Fasted rides: Recovery or at the very most light tempo.
Wanna ride hard? Eat accordingly.

Also getting enough carbs in you is CRUCIAL. I carbed up yesterday night and was on my hydration since yesterday morning. Ate normal breakfast and kept drinking water this morning. 3.5 hrs with pretty long threshold efforts and sprints here and there in the heat. All I needed was 2.5 bottles of electrolyte water and 6 clif bloks the whole ride. Felt great!

So yeah. Prepare in advance for what you’re about to ride

AJS914
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Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

I've tried a few fasted rides and didn't like them. An hour and a half easy fasted ride later felt like I had been on a 3+ hour hard ride. So I got little training effect out of an easy, fasted hour and a half but it took a large toll on me in fatigue.

If fasted rides really helped with weight loss I might try them more but I think they compromise the rest of my training. I need to lose that last 5 kg.

zefs
Posts: 436
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:40 pm

by zefs

SilentDrone wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:16 am
Thank you everyone for the input. Reading your responses makes me think that you are correct. It was probably dehydration more than anything else. I may well have been dehydrated when I started the ride.

I think what I’d like to do is find some kind of an amateur coach or some other resources that can help me wrap my head around this. There’s so much information and so many opinions available on the Internet that it’s really hard to know what is and what isn’t, and then how to tailor that to my own circumstances.

Can anyone suggest a resource?


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If you have specific goals it would be best to get a coach and ask the questions. If you just ride and you are worried about hydration feel free to read my post above on how to determine how much fluid you need to be taking and also note how much salt there is on your skin after a ride. These will vary depending on the effort/duration/temperature and your current state but you can establish them.

e.g You weigh before the ride at 70kg, during a 2-3 hour ride (Z2-Z3) you consume ~2L of fluids and when done you still weigh 70kg = proper hydration. If the same effort ride was done in higher temps or you notice higher salt concentration on your skin after the ride you might want to increase salt intake on next meal. Your body will tell you how much of what you need and when, so there is no need to overload yourself either.

SilentDrone
Posts: 254
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:55 pm

by SilentDrone

Thanks everyone. I appreciate the feedback. It’s a journey for sure.


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AeroObsessive
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:42 am

by AeroObsessive

SilentDrone wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:55 am
Today I bonked on an evening ride. Nothing like that has ever happened to me before. About 30k into a 45k ride I got lightheaded and dizzy, cramped big time, and lost all strength to produce any power. The more I tried to push through it the worse I cramped and the more dizzy I got. I had cliff bars and plenty of fluid and consumed all of that but it didn’t held.

I think this was partly because I’ve been dieting to lose some weight (down 14 lbs!). I ate only a salad for lunch and I had been working in the yard/sun for several hours before the ride which I think didn’t help. I took some cliff bars and munched two down as I was rolling out, but that didn’t help.

Do you have any pointers for how to avoid this from happening again?

Do you have any tips about dieting and cycling in general? Any resources you could share?

I’m using an app called Noom to help me lose some pounds and it’s been useful, but for exercise it encourages things like “walk for 10 mins” or “be sure to stand up every couple of hours.” Lol. It’s not geared towards the cycling enthusiast.
Losing weight is simple in concept: maintain a calorie deficit and you'll lose weight.

That's the clear concept. The execution is far harder. Your issue above is you didn't eat enough for the day. Do you know how many calories you're intaking for the day? How much you spend approximately on the bike? When the "in" is far less than the "out" bad things can happen. Hence trying losing weight in a heavy training cycle is not advisable. If running a deficit, timing of the calorie intake pre and post rise can help a lot to manage this.

Weighing food, and reading labels and measuring your body weight and energy expenditure can be highly laborious, but if you don't know, you don't know. After a few weeks of diligently paying attention you should have a better handle on things.

Information abounds on the internet, some good, some bad. Generally anything the eschews a particular food group, advocates "miraculous" weight loss, or generally any other stupid shit is best avoided. Fasting, keto, vegan, water diet detox supplement whatever, give it a pass.

kode54
Posts: 3750
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 9:39 pm

by kode54

I use a body scale to get a base line for my hydration. Not sure how accurate the scale actually is...but in my case where I monitor how much hydration my body is...I can prevent cramps based on that. Below 56%, I will be in cramp zone on a hard fast ride. at 60%, most rides will be cramp free.
SilentDrone wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:16 am
Thank you everyone for the input. Reading your responses makes me think that you are correct. It was probably dehydration more than anything else. I may well have been dehydrated when I started the ride.

I think what I’d like to do is find some kind of an amateur coach or some other resources that can help me wrap my head around this. There’s so much information and so many opinions available on the Internet that it’s really hard to know what is and what isn’t, and then how to tailor that to my own circumstances.

Can anyone suggest a resource?


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IchDien
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by IchDien

Sounds like hydration issues / heat exhaustion from the day to me too.

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