An hour at zone 3, is it useful?

A light bike doesn't replace good fitness.

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guyc
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by guyc

That’s exactly what I’m planning. If I feel like my legs are decent I’ll have a dig (I’m not too slow, averaging around 20mph for most 50 miles rides with about 2500ft of climbing), and if not just ride to build. I’m not planning on specific interval days.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Averaging 20mph over 50miles with any climbing at all is definitely not slow. In fact it’s fast in my books. If you stop long enough I’d buy you a coffee. I once offered, as we rolled through this town with a nice coffee shop, to buy everyone a coffee if they stopped. As I was kinda new to the group, I figured it would be a nice gesture and a good way to meet everyone. Think they would? Nope. Still don’t know what half of them look like without a helmet on.
I ride for the enjoyment. Best shape I’ve ever been in was when doing long multiweek touring rides. Where getting up and riding was kind of like a job. Stop for lunches etc. Real food. Just lots of long slowish miles. Every four days or so take a rest day. After a couple of weeks of that my metabolism just starts to change and the weight just starts falling off. I’ve always got weight I could lose, but have never been able to lose it like I can when I’m just doing these types of long slow miles. All my miles are pretty slow I guess, but when it’s all I’m doing all day I just do more of them . For me it really is just about the enjoyment I get from riding. I know it’s physically good for me, and thats good enough.
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iheartbianchi
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by iheartbianchi

Calnago wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:46 pm
Averaging 20mph over 50miles with any climbing at all is definitely not slow. In fact it’s fast in my books. If you stop long enough I’d buy you a coffee. I once offered, as we rolled through this town with a nice coffee shop, to buy everyone a coffee if they stopped. As I was kinda new to the group, I figured it would be a nice gesture and a good way to meet everyone. Think they would? Nope. Still don’t know what half of them look like without a helmet on.
I ride for the enjoyment. Best shape I’ve ever been in was when doing long multiweek touring rides. Where getting up and riding was kind of like a job. Stop for lunches etc. Real food. Just lots of long slowish miles. Every four days or so take a rest day. After a couple of weeks of that my metabolism just starts to change and the weight just starts falling off. I’ve always got weight I could lose, but have never been able to lose it like I can when I’m just doing these types of long slow miles. All my miles are pretty slow I guess, but when it’s all I’m doing all day I just do more of them Image . For me it really is just about the enjoyment I get from riding. I know it’s physically good for me, and thats good enough.
As a fellow connoisseur of Italian bikes, I think you have the right idea :wink:

Which is part of the reason I refuse to use power meters (even though I will use a HR monitor to ensure I'm not going too fast)...once we start obsessing over intervals and "hardcore" training programs, riding becomes stressful and more about performance metrics and less about fun...and we all need to be having fun to want to do those miles in the first place!
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by TobinHatesYou

For some, fun is chasing PRs for the umpteenth time up a mountain. For others it's long slow rides with a couple friends, cafe rides, Zwift, gravel fondos, carving up descents, or all of the above. Some others just like to own high-end bikes and don't really ride much. That's fine too.

I like the metrics. I want that 18 minute OLH. If I get it, then I will start the painful progression toward 17 minutes. That's fun for me. The power meter remains one of my best purchases ever.

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by iheartbianchi

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:42 am
For some, fun is chasing PRs for the umpteenth time up a mountain. For others it's long slow rides with a couple friends, cafe rides, Zwift, gravel fondos, carving up descents, or all of the above. Some others just like to own high-end bikes and don't really ride much. That's fine too.

I like the metrics. I want that 18 minute OLH. If I get it, then I will start the painful progression toward 17 minutes. That's fun for me. The power meter remains one of my best purchases ever.
I don't think this is a fair or accurate description of the issue here. We're not talking about "caring about PRs" vs. "not caring" vs. "caring only about bikes." This thread is based on the assumption that we all care deeply about PRs, and we are discussing the best ways of achieving that goal. Oftentimes and ironically enough, not caring so much about the power meter or progression is actually the best way of achieving your goals. Why is this? Because the point is to be on our bikes as often and as long as possible. However, when left to our own devices, we often push too hard and too often, which actually ends up holding us back either in terms of decreased benefits, or we simply can't ride as often or as long as we would if we went slower. Hence the point of this thread - what is the best way to get faster? Pushing hard and worrying about power meter? Or slowing down and really relaxing on your rides? Or is it some mix?
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by TobinHatesYou

I got hung up with your concrete response of refusing to use power meters. For me, slow rides are natural filler in between hard days. If you’re only doing 80TSS a day, then sure you could go hard every day and be really good at short rides/races, but I don’t know anyone actually doing that. All of us incorporate longer, slow rides when we have time. I like having the power meter on all rides because it’s the best way to track chronic training load too (in a way that’s your PM telling you to take a day off.)

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by iheartbianchi

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:52 am
I got hung up with your concrete response of refusing to use power meters. For me, slow rides are natural filler in between hard days. If you’re only doing 80TSS a day, then sure you could go hard every day and be really good at short rides/races, but I don’t know anyone actually doing that. All of us incorporate longer, slow rides when we have time. I like having the power meter on all rides because it’s the best way to track chronic training load too (in a way that’s your PM telling you to take a day off.)
I don't use power meters simply b/c I know I would fall into the trap of being obsessed with my numbers output, especially with Strava! We all see those WT guys pushing 500+ watts and want to look pro on strava, but my lowly wattage in the 100s would surely be embarssing :)
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robertbb
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by robertbb

Power meters are useful even for recreational cyclists who don't care about PR's for a whole bunch of reasons.

Anyway, I've found in recent years that the idea of getting in "winter base miles" is counter intuitive. Presumably in the shorter, darker, colder and wetter months it is far more difficult (and undesirable) to get outside. And 3 hours at zone 2/3 on a trainer is just dull.

So for me, it's a focus on intensity through the winter months with short, punchy rides (either on the trainer or outdoors if possible) and keeping to a pretty strict power based plan. When the days start to get longer, brighter, warmer and drier - that's when I introduce more volume and actually tone down the deliberate intensity. I'll still dip into the red zone and burn matches, it'll just happen organically as part of a spirited group session or what not - it's not what I'd deliberately set out to do.

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by iheartbianchi

robertbb wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:08 pm
Power meters are useful even for recreational cyclists who don't care about PR's for a whole bunch of reasons.

Anyway, I've found in recent years that the idea of getting in "winter base miles" is counter intuitive. Presumably in the shorter, darker, colder and wetter months it is far more difficult (and undesirable) to get outside. And 3 hours at zone 2/3 on a trainer is just dull.

So for me, it's a focus on intensity through the winter months with short, punchy rides (either on the trainer or outdoors if possible) and keeping to a pretty strict power based plan. When the days start to get longer, brighter, warmer and drier - that's when I introduce more volume and actually tone down the deliberate intensity. I'll still dip into the red zone and burn matches, it'll just happen organically as part of a spirited group session or what not - it's not what I'd deliberately set out to do.
The winter base miles thing is really just a necessary function of the spring/summer racing season, so there really is no other time to pack on the miles. Of course for us amateurs, yeah, no need for us to follow the professional calendar!
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AJS914
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by AJS914

All of us incorporate longer, slow rides when we have time.
I don't think everybody does this nor do they understand the benefits of polarized training. As said above, it's counter intuitive. Long slow distance wouldn't be called "junk miles" by many people if they understood the benefits.

ichobi
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by ichobi

There is no 'winter base miles' in where I live (Thailand) since the lowest midday temperature every month is around 30c! Basically cyclists' here ride and train all year round.

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guyc
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by guyc

So, tried a zone 2 ride yesterday. It was *hard* continually pulling back and to within zone 2. I was consciously having to slow myself. I ended up being out for 3 1/2 hours and managed to keep to zone 2 for allmost 80% of the ride (I pushed on some hills and managed to equal a PQ on a 3 min climb from 4 years ago despite it being 50 miles into the 61 mile ride, so that was nice).

From a power perspective it equated to around 45-50w down on a typical ride (normalised power was 185w rather than the usual around 235-240w).

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by dim

I rode a 50km commute today ....

I used both power and heart rate and the intention was to ensure that I don't exceed zone 2 heart rate ... or zone 2 power but also to keep cadence above 80

it went ok, and I will start training using this method as soon as I have my bike fit
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frommel
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by frommel

Loved my zone 2 ride today. 2 hours smelling the roses and just enjoying being out on the bike. Ready to go ride some more!!!!


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iheartbianchi
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by iheartbianchi

guyc wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:28 pm
So, tried a zone 2 ride yesterday. It was *hard* continually pulling back and to within zone 2. I was consciously having to slow myself. I ended up being out for 3 1/2 hours and managed to keep to zone 2 for allmost 80% of the ride (I pushed on some hills and managed to equal a PQ on a 3 min climb from 4 years ago despite it being 50 miles into the 61 mile ride, so that was nice).

From a power perspective it equated to around 45-50w down on a typical ride (normalised power was 185w rather than the usual around 235-240w).
As several other people already mentioned, don't feel like you are absolutely bound to stay in Zone 2 for the entirety of the ride. It's perfectly fine to throw in a few sprints, a couple of hilly efforts, etc. The point is to make sure that your Zone 2 rides are mostly Zone 2.
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