Bar drop and restricted breathing

[zefs]

The results might differ from fitter to fitter because depending on which you choose (retul,shimano etc) there are different methods and ways to achieve a position, different ways of taking the measurements and different experience levels between fitters. The person getting the fit needs to give as many details as possible (what issues he experiences) and what his goals are etc, these are questions the fitter needs to ask.

Also it's complex how everything works, for example if I do a hard ride with a lot of road bumps with my tires at 100+ psi I can't avoid a stiff neck at the end of the ride, but that doesn't mean the fit is off (another example would be grinding at low rpm's up a climb). So there are things you need to do while riding as well, like relaxing the upper body as you go harder, or standing on the pedals for road bumps and using the correct tire pressure for your weight/terrain.

[mattr]

Sell all the discarded parts that don't give the correct fit.

If my experience of self fitters is anything to go by there will be enough money in the kitty to pay for the fit, and a private flight there and back.

[wheelsONfire]

Not to further dive into the subject of an all out bike fit, but, there is a thing to consider.
If you do work with your body and do it with mediocre weight, then you may move in one way.
However, if you need to really use all your power, you may do things differently as you compensate with other muscles.
You can't really do that on a bike, as it's set up for a static position.
So i guess being fit is sometimes needed to get fit on your bike.

[mattr]

But if you have a baseline that works, you can change one thing at a time as fitness/weight changes. And you still have your baseline to fall back on.

What you're doing is randomly firing random changes into a current poor fit that you don't even understand.

[mikemelbrooks]

When i ride on my trainer

When I ride on my trainer I get sore hands. Because when I ride on a trainer my hands do nothing but support my upper body. Unlike the real world where I change hand position frequently, steering and braking etc. How about this go outside?

[LouisN]

...

[TobinHatesYou]

You’re probably hunching/shrugging your shoulders a bit too on the trainer. Try to consciously pin your shoulders back / straight. That will also encourage flattening out your back. I think a lot of people who feel constricted in the drops are the types with bad hip flexibility, so instead of leaning the whole body forward, they arch their backs and effectively compress both their chest and abdominal cavities.

When I ride on my trainer I get sore hands. Because when I ride on a trainer my hands do nothing but support my upper body. Unlike the real world where I change hand position frequently, steering and braking etc. How about this go outside?

This is dumbfounding. On the trainer you are completely free to do whatever you want with your hands because you DON’T need to steer, brake or even shift in certain modes.

[LouisN]

I can't get away from a fact i don't really like.
When i ride on my trainer, i have noticed that after awhile my breathing is much worse.
I concluded that this is an effect on handlebar stack.
I don't feel any restrictions in my position otherwise.
This is a progressive thing increasing the longer i ride.
If i just lean back on my saddle, lifting hands and extend them out, i notice i handle better.
Anyone else noticed this?
Has this something to do with weak core strength or is it a deeper problem?

What's the environment like around your training setup ? Temperature, humidity, airflow ?
If it's only breathing, then you should check out for these. Good quality fan, make sure there is enough humidity in the air depending on your heating system. Heated closed environments (like tracks or gymnasiums) are tough on the lungs for long efforts.
Otherwise indoor training is pretty statical. So yes, if you only do cycling year round, maybe complete your cold season routine with some core workout or cross sport that strenghtens the upper body. That's where a kinesiologist is handy.
Louis

[wheelsONfire]

LouisN, i think you are right on with what you say.
I live in a 1 room flat, so i need to have a draft in here to get lower temp and more air..
I have no fan!
Yes, i notice much more how static it is. I hope i can learn to sit same position on my bike when i bike outside.
I have never liked the setup indoors when i come out. It's weird but it hasn't worked for me.
Perhaps most of it comes back to weak core, pehaps this is why i move around on the saddle.
I need to change position at times, i also pedal differently on/off (perhaps that's normal?)

I guess that the already static pose on a bike is and has been a bit of an issue for me.
It's not easier on the trainer. Looking at Zwift, i wonder how some guys manage to ride so long on a trainer!?
It's impressive!

Tobin the hater, i will try to remember that. What you mention kind of reminds me of posture belts you wear over shoulders.
I think you have a correct assessment. I probably have those traits to a certain degree.
All seems to get worse when i am tired. I pull forward on the saddle and seems further away.
That probably says i'm too weak!?

[mattr]

That probably says i'm too weak!?

Or, as above, you haven't got a good fit (baseline or otherwise)

[zefs]

It's a bit funny that the most common suggestion by other cyclists to having issues on the bike is to do more stretching and core work exercises.
You first start with bike fit, if that's off doing more stretching and exercises will not fix it although it might relieve some of the issues you are getting on the bike because the fit is off in the first place. Atleast that is my experience, I used to come home after a ride with sore joints (instead of just sore muscles) and thought that I don't stretch enough, but now that I have improved the position on the bike I do less stretching.

I think one reason people neglect fit is because long hours on the bike have become normal for cyclists and we are used to it although it's not a normal position to be in for hours. Others just think pain is normal and that's how cycling is.

You also mention things get worse when you are tired, if the muscles haven't recovered from a previous exercise and you ask them to do more hard work and they can't perform it's normal to get pains and niggles on the rest of the body.

[wheelsONfire]

I guess it's my responsibility to come back here with some sort of answer/ resolution.
First of all, for respect to you guys who have been here to help and second, to people who possibly have similar issues.

Anyway, here it goes.
I went from a -12 stem, to a -12 stem with 4-5mm of spacers (this is basically same as a -10 stem (+1mm with 5mm spacer).
From that to a -8 stem.
Now i run a -8 stem + 5mm of spacers (which is like a -6 stem with 1mm spacer).
This is a stack increase of 12-13mm based on my stem length.

My saddle height have been moved a bit to accomodate test of moving cleats a bit more rearward compared to what i usually ride.
(This was not better at all for me. Rather the opposite)

I ride so i can modulate my feets, no toe down anymore. Also move a bit forward and to the rear to be able to use different muscles more or lesser so.
I have bad core strength and i have noted i need to be able to hold "flat back pose". I tend to crumb my back and that was bad for my breathing.
This helps me open up my breathing!

Highten breathing ability and possibility to move on saddle (alternate muscle groups used), have increased my power output (be able to sustain certain output).

(Off topic)
Something i have noted is litte asymmetric position of my buttocks on saddle. Perhaps left femur is a bit longer?

This was alot of bla bla bla....

[zefs]

Yes, a leg length difference can be felt on the saddle too, since one sitbone could be slipping out of the sweetspot to reach the pedal (can cause one side saddle-sores like on my case). You either have to lower the saddle to acommodate or add shims which I guess is the correct way since it allows a more optimal saddle height. It can also create other issues like a difference in L/R power output since one leg will be preferred depending on how big the difference is which can then cause muscle overuse etc. All these can be corrected during a bike fit (although I know you've said you don't have access to one).

[TobinHatesYou]

Asymmetry on the saddle is more likely spine/posture based IMO. Hint: none of our spines are perfectly straight.

[zefs]

It could come from anywhere, that is why a physio who is a bike fitter is recommended usually since they can detect those assymetries (not that other bike fitters can't but depends on the area).