Neo + Zwift and resistance

A light bike doesn't replace good fitness.

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MountainAddict
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:04 pm
Location: Colorado

by MountainAddict

wheelsONfire wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:06 pm
Thanks guys, i "heard" both of you.
I'll admit i have not been reading up sufficently at all.
I contacted Zwift and i was informed on how to lower the trainers resistance.
I will try that in ERG mode and with it turned off.
3*85 is like 255 in FTP. Puh, that seems much, but i'd better go through your tips aswell as lowering the trainers resistance.
I would really like to be able to shift more on my own.
That "set gear" mode is not for me. I am always shifting alot when i bike (for real).

Again, thanks for the insight :thumbup:
Lowering the trainer difficulty will actually make you shift less. If you want to shift more, don't use ERG mode and have the Trainer difficulty at least 75% (or all the way if you have low enough gearing for your preferred cadence on climbs).

Here's a good resource to read: https://zwiftinsider.com/using-the-trai ... -in-zwift/

Quote from the linked article: "Another way to look at it: the Trainer Difficulty setting determines how much shifting you will need to do. Where you might typically use 7 of your gears when riding at the default 50% setting, lowering it to 25% would let you ride and only use ~3 gears, since the uphills and downhills will feel less steep.

Increasing your trainer difficulty, on the other hand, will force you to use more gears. So instead of 7, you may use 10 or 12, since the hills will feel steeper and you will need to shift more to maintain a healthy cadence. As Chris Pollotta said on the Zwift Riders Facebook group, “It’s a cadence control more than anything.”

Also, you should subscribe to Shane Miller/GP Lama's Youtube channel. He is a wealth of knowledge.

A video he did on Trainer Difficulty setting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mjAZyhOlt0

Omiar
Posts: 226
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:20 pm

by Omiar

Im a new Zwifter as well. I dont think its a techical problem and its not about EGR mode also.
When I compare the numbers, they are in the same ballpark but it does indeed feel more different to ride Zwift. Especially the flat (0% gradient) feels much more harder on Zwift. So I would say its just our brain and body which are looking to have the same experience but its just not possible digitally.

The trainers resistance in the middle is ok. Go lower and the climbs are ridiculous.
Also, might want to check if you RPM number is constant. Mine was just 80->140->0->80 because of problem if Tacx software, but the problem is only visible in Zwift.
After a semi-official software update, its better, but I still see odd spikes of 5rpm and also I think the power number a bit too inconsistent.
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by Weenie


ParisCarbon
Posts: 1402
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Winnipeg Canada

by ParisCarbon

Ive owned a Neo since the day it came out, and Im a beta tester on the Tacx Desktop App.. the Neo is EXTREMELY accurate... Ive compared it with a freshly calibreated SRM and on a 20 minute effort they were within 1 watt of one another, and the cadence tracked perfectly...
A few things to note if you are on zwift, trainer difficulty like mentioned above ony really determines how many times you are going to shift.. watts are watts.. if you climb their phoney rendition of alpe dhuez wth max trainer difficulty, you will be in the small ring... if you were to drop it down to say 30% realism, you could effectively climb it in a bigger gear, but you still need to make those same watts you were making before..
If you race on their, I personally run at about 35% trainer difficulty.. this does not makes things any easier for me, but what it does do is allow me to keep up on the downhills... sounds strange? Well the Neo motor drives you down hill and actually takes watts AWAY from you... remember speed on these apps is based on W/KG so a rider who is actually pushing 225 watts down hill that weighs the same as me while Im only doing 160 will obviously pull away... reducing the trainer difficulty takes away some of that downhill slope and allows me to somewhat keep my watts so I get to keep up going downhill... going uphill, I just run a bigger gear and spin it faster...
I find the RPM discrepancy mentioned above generally happens after coming off a downhill and you decide to coast and then start pedalling right away.. the Neo sees the speed and thinks hmm you must be going some insane RPM until it realizes what you are doing... like I said on my 20 min effort I did on TTS4 software, the 2 tracked perfectly...

Jbass
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:16 am

by Jbass

I had many problems with my Neo on ERG mode. Sold it since and been doing all my training, including Zwift, on rollers.

mattr
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Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: The Grim North.

by mattr

Problems? Such as?

A mate locally has just bought a second hand one that had "lots of problems". Checking it against his SRM (and another friends power pedals) he can't find any issues, other than the occasional slippy feeling that is fairly well known and not really a problem.........

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wheelsONfire
Posts: 2963
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

I wonder if it would be technically possible to make an algorithm that simulates a less static load!?
Cycling for real does feel much more dynamic and not as "congested" and/ or narrow, talking dynamics (on the trainer).
I have corresponded quite a few times with Zwift about the resistance and how it seems impossible to get as i want.
I don't find ERG on/off or setting trainer resistance (zero/max) has nearly near what i mean.
What i look for is using the gears more or less exactly as i do when i bike on tarmac.
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TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4197
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

I doubt you actually want this because indoors you don’t have the same cues that indicate variable resistance like wind, rougher tarmac, very slight/short pitch changes, etc. I mean the Neo does have the cobbled/rough terrain feature but it really doesn’t feel quite right and the latency from screen to trainer to your brain amounts to some amount of disconnect from realism.

Use indoor training to keep your cardio and neuro up...don’t try to replicate the outdoors 100%.

Jbass
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:16 am

by Jbass

mattr wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:03 am
Problems? Such as?

A mate locally has just bought a second hand one that had "lots of problems". Checking it against his SRM (and another friends power pedals) he can't find any issues, other than the occasional slippy feeling that is fairly well known and not really a problem.........
Mostly interference with other signals. Even Tacx were having a hard time to identify the problem. Once in a while, the signal would drop and resistance would become so high that it was almost impossible to spin the pedals.

mattr
Posts: 4673
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: The Grim North.

by mattr

So probably environment issues, rather than a fault with the trainer.
Strange it only occured during ERG mode.

I've spent some time cleaning up/organising my local wifi/bluetooth/ant+/3G/4G "noise" after wireless connection issues. Now, as long as i'm not doing anything silly, everything connects first time and stays connected permanently.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4197
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

If you're making use of ANT+ instead of BT, make sure your own WiFi router isn't using channels 7 through 11(12) on the 2.4GHz band. You may also want to see what your neighbors SSIDs are using.

Bluetooth is simply a more robust protocol in congested areas. It has active channel hopping. As soon as it detects the slightest decrease in SNR, it will jump to a cleaner frequency.

mattr
Posts: 4673
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: The Grim North.

by mattr

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:39 am
If you're making use of ANT+ instead of BT, make sure your own WiFi router isn't using channels 7 through 11(12) on the 2.4GHz band.
Which is essentially what i did.

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