Sweetspot heart rate

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Shrike
Posts: 2019
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:08 pm

by Shrike

Trying to work out my sweet spot heart rate at the moment for intervals indoors. My threshold heart rate is around 161ish.

I did TrainerRoad's Ramp test, but it's not suitable for me, it gives me a result that I think is too high (yes I know a lot of people have the opposite issue with it). I lowered the FTP result and did my first plan workout intervals at average 155bpm. The interval power was supposed to be 94% FTP. Do you think 155bpm is still too high or have I got it in the right ballpark?

TrainingPeaks says my sub-Threshold HR is 151-160. I just don't want to burn out on this plan. Want to make sure I'm riding at sweet spot not threshold, made this mistake before :P

And no I'm not doing a 20min FTP this week, get lost :)

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ms6073
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by ms6073

Seems to me you are chasing the wrong metric seeing as heart rate can and will vary from day to day based on a variety of factors. If you know your FTP, then why are you not focusing on power based training on the trainer, making note of how heart rate responds to the various training loads?
- Michael
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Shrike
Posts: 2019
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:08 pm

by Shrike

Power and FTP also varies daily. And different FTP tests will also provide different results. If you have a nicely reliable threshold heart rate when fresh, and you don't trust your FTP test, then heart rate is the smartest way to quickly verify it. It'd be pretty daft to ignore your heart rate after getting a new FTP value on a test.

bikeboy1tr
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by bikeboy1tr

I would trust my power meter any day before my hr. My hr is always on the low side and if I am tired or have been training consecutive days its always a low hr. The only time I use my hr is for base training and for testing Cardiac Drift otherwise I confirm my hr zones by my power meter.
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c60rider
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by c60rider

Personally with the lack of a power meter then you're best using RPE as a measure of approximate sweetspot but you'll be compromised with the possible training effect you want. You need to be a good judge as to fatigue levels and/or freshness to decide how hard you really are riding. If you're aiming for that kind of precision with training then just get a power meter. You're only kidding yourself otherwise and I suspect most sweetspot without a power meter becomes the dead zone 3 that feels hard but isn't quite getting the effect you want.

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LouisN
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by LouisN

I'm with c60rider on this. I would add the HR to RPE though.
If you already used a PM in the past, and know your figures, it helps a little.
I'm PM-less since last july, and I ''feel'' my RPE sensibility is pretty developped, but hey... :noidea:
I'll see in the spring if my winter PM-less training routines will work...

Louis :)

boots2000
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Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:28 pm

by boots2000

If "average" heartrate for efforts is 155- I would call that at threshold.
To average 155- you have to ride some of the time above that average.
Seems like you should shoot for a power that gives you a heartrate of 140-150 (for sweetspot).
Shrike wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:49 pm
Trying to work out my sweet spot heart rate at the moment for intervals indoors. My threshold heart rate is around 161ish.

I did TrainerRoad's Ramp test, but it's not suitable for me, it gives me a result that I think is too high (yes I know a lot of people have the opposite issue with it). I lowered the FTP result and did my first plan workout intervals at average 155bpm. The interval power was supposed to be 94% FTP. Do you think 155bpm is still too high or have I got it in the right ballpark?

TrainingPeaks says my sub-Threshold HR is 151-160. I just don't want to burn out on this plan. Want to make sure I'm riding at sweet spot not threshold, made this mistake before :P

And no I'm not doing a 20min FTP this week, get lost :)

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

What do you mean threshold HR? Your HR at FT or your LTHR (higher.)

My LTHR is 164bpm and sweetspot for me would probably be between 135-145bpm depending on the day.

biwa
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Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:39 pm

by biwa

How do you guys define "sweetspot" HR? Is it from some formula connecting HR, FTP, and some other variables?

TheRich
Posts: 1037
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:36 am

by TheRich

biwa wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:20 am
How do you guys define "sweetspot" HR? Is it from some formula connecting HR, FTP, and some other variables?
It depends a lot on temp/cooling, probably too much to do it accurately with just HR. SS power intervals (outside) this summer were at over "threshold HR," a couple weeks ago it was 10-15bpm lower (at a higher wattage).

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zank
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by zank

Why do you think the ramp test is off? Are you using virtual power?

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

Since this got bumped, I’ll use today as an example.

1) My indoor HR is always a bit lower than my outdoor HR for a few reasons. My pain cave is very cold, about 50F/10C unless I turn on the heater for a bit, and even then it only gets to about 62F/16.5C before I shut it off. No adrenaline from watching the road for debris, cars, pedestrians, horses, etc. better cadence control since I turn down resistance changes to off or 20%.

2) CTL, fatigue, temporary boosts in fitness. After doing Festive 500, my cardio is amazing but my legs are still dead. I’ve only spent one day off the bike since spending >20 hours on the bike last week.

Today that meant my HR was impressively lower vs my sustained power output. I averaged 254W (275W NP) for 40min on the trainer at 142bpm. Normally I’d be about 10bpm higher for that kind of output. Basically what I’m saying is ideally sweetspot training is done in a power band relative to your FTP and not with HR training zones.

Leave HR based training to runners because they have no better metric to gauge their perceived exertion.

mikemelbrooks
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by mikemelbrooks

zank wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:35 pm
Why do you think the ramp test is off? Are you using virtual power?
Any Test that isn't a full hour after a set warm up has the possibility to be "off". Some people will test better at a twenty minute FTP test than a ramp test some people will test better at the ramp test. The test itself isn't too important, what is important that each test should be repeated at the same conditions I.E. Temperature, humidity, fatigue, fuel and hydration and if outside course and equipment.
TLDR nothing wrong with a ramp test but should only be compared with a ramp test.
BTW Tobin footpods are available for runners that read running power.

MisterNoChain
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Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:29 pm

by MisterNoChain

+1 what TobinHatesYou said

Heart rate fluctuates too much depending on the circumstances. In the evening my heart rate can be 10 beats lower then before noon. When i have 3 hard days in a row my heart rate can be 5 to 10 beats lower, maybe i dont think that i'm tired but my body tells me i am. If i do a SST on day 3 i have troubles getting into that zone.

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zank
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by zank

mikemelbrooks wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:12 pm
zank wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:35 pm
Why do you think the ramp test is off? Are you using virtual power?
Any Test that isn't a full hour after a set warm up has the possibility to be "off". Some people will test better at a twenty minute FTP test than a ramp test some people will test better at the ramp test. The test itself isn't too important, what is important that each test should be repeated at the same conditions I.E. Temperature, humidity, fatigue, fuel and hydration and if outside course and equipment.
TLDR nothing wrong with a ramp test but should only be compared with a ramp test.
BTW Tobin footpods are available for runners that read running power.
I agree with all of that. I just wanted to understand why he thinks it's not suitable for him specifically. It seems like he is trying to force fit an FTP based on historical heart rate data.

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