cadence conspiracy

A light bike doesn't replace good fitness.

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bigfatty
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by bigfatty

high cadence when climbing, they say. like chris froome
high cadence when climbing, they said. like lance armstrong

however these two seem to be outliers. we all know now what armstrong was up to, epo gives a lot of oxygen in the blood so it makes sense to use cardio vs muscles when on epo. froome, is of the new generation of cycling so it would be incendiary to say he is on the dope, just because he uses this high oxygen fueled style of riding. but who else rides at 100rpm?

i checked this year alp d'huez stage, everybody at about 75-80, maybe dumoulin at 85. checked the strava accounts too and this verifies between 75-80.

anybody else still believes this high cadence bs?

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

You pedal at what your comfortable at that maybe 100 or 75 rpm

by Weenie


Jugi
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by Jugi

I’d like to know who ”they” are. I haven’t stumbled on this theory before.

Don’t get me wrong, I know it is scientifically proven that in general a high VO2Max can be utilized better with higher cadence and high muscular power capabilities are best put to use on a lower cadence, but it is always individual. And therefore there is no right answer.

AJS914
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by AJS914

Try climbing with high cadence for yourself and see if it works. It works for me but steeper climbs require bigger gears like 34x32.

Partly, cycling has been stuck in tradition. They used to ride straight blocks and then it was big news when someone would ride a 25 toothed cog in the rear. It made the news last year at the Vuelta when riders were using a 32 cassette. It's only news because tradition says that a 32 is a mountain bike gear rather than a racing gear.

It's interestign that Armstrong or Pantani could spin up those climbs with a 25 or 26 cog. And maybe they had 39 chainrings too but as we know they were epo fueled or blood doped. Froome needs biggers gears to achieve the same effect on the same climbs.

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IrrelevantD
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by IrrelevantD

Personally, it depends on if I'm in or out of the saddle. If I'm in the saddle, 90-100, out of the saddle, I'll put it in a big gear and grind it out at 70. But then, I grew up with downtube shifters, 53/39 rings and 12-19 cassettes. There was no sticking it in a small gear and spin a high cadence on anything over 5%.
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bilwit
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by bilwit

that's because the motor is doing half the work, duh

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bigfatty
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by bigfatty

here is froome data on cadence and he seems to be doing 85-90 cadence:
https://www.strava.com/activities/15125 ... 7740536093
... so higer than others but not by that much.

@Jugi "who "they” are" : just general cycling media, a lot of training sites, kooks.
an example is froome is often referenced as riding at a very high cadence, 100rpm, which according to above data is incorrect.

i am not looking for anyone to tell me what cadence I should be riding at, the gist of the post is more, "high cadence is bs and who else rides at 100rpm, if anyone?"

Jugi
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by Jugi

Chris Froome is clearly not an average rider. He has a very high VO2Max and may be built in a way that he benefits from a high cadence (and those Osymmetric chainrings). In my opinion, he uses high cadence mostly when he is over his functional threshold power. When just cruising along in the peloton or riding up a hill at the group’s speed, he rarely resorts to spinning at 100rpm.

His approach to it may not even be entirely scientific - although powermeters and HRMs are used by almost all pros, I think most go up the hills on a cadence they feel comfortable with. Or to phrase it differently, on a cadence they feel most powerful with.

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bigfatty
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by bigfatty

Jugi wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:23 pm
In my opinion, he uses high cadence mostly when he is over his functional threshold power. When just cruising along in the peloton or riding up a hill at the group’s speed, he rarely resorts to spinning at 100rpm.
yeah, that is the thing, his cadence is not that high when he is is, I assume, at close to threshold, with the rest of the elite climbers, in the mountains. It is just when he attacks (after his team-mates are finally spent) he will spin it up to 130, but only for a very short period, 20 seconds, ie an attack. But then all you hear is Chris Froome and his high cadence. Which is sort of bs. and it is this sort of reporting that probably puts a lot of people on the wrong path in their training.

mattr
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by mattr

High cadence for climbing (and TTs) has been a thing since before Lance learnt how to shoot up.

Nefarious86
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by Nefarious86

So basically Froome rides at a similar cadence to most people, uses bigger gears on the days in the mountains to take advantage of the non symmetrical chainrings and will spin 130 to gap opponents... Hardly thread worth and likely to just become another slinging match, which if it does will be knocked on the head.

And as for the chainring thing, I'm a club hack and have picked up 10rpm over most people I race with due to the change to Q-rings feeling more efficient and TT at a higher cadence on Osymetric rings.

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Discodan
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by Discodan

Isn’t the point ‘they’ are making here that a higher cadence will fatigue your muscles less for the same output by moving the stress to your cardio-vascular system? It doesn’t matter so much for a single climb but if you have to back up several climbs in a day your muscles will be toast if you grind it at max output but your energy can be replenished


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Alumen
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by Alumen

Well, it is worth a discussion... I think...

I have done subtop triathlon for many years, with Shimano Biopace rings (remember, the start of the Osymetric rings years ago). My cadence was always high, 100-105rpm. During training and during the race. What you train is what you get, simple as that. But... once climbing, my cadence dropped to 80rpm. No way I could get to 100-105rpm.

Again, it is all individual... but still...
CAAD 10 2015

beeatnik
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by beeatnik

GCN did a thing on this and a few papers have been published in peer reviewed journals. Essentially, people spin more on flat ground. In other words, it's not natural to have a high cadence on high gradients. Gravity and shit.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1895355

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4989856/

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/do ... 1&type=pdf

In conclusion, during both the flat group-stages and time
trials of tour races, professional riders spontaneously adopt
higher cadences (around 90 rpm) than those reported as
being most economical in the majority of previous laboratory
studies. In contrast, during mountain ascents they seem
to adopt a more economical pedalling rate (~70 rpm), possibly
due to the specific demands of this competition phase.
Finally, top performance in the most determinant phase of
the competition (i.e., time trials and mountain passes) seems
to be associated, at least in part, with the ability to maintain
high pedalling rates.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43ci68I ... u.be&t=445

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bigfatty
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by bigfatty

beeatnik wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:19 pm
In conclusion, during both the flat group-stages and time
trials of tour races, professional riders spontaneously adopt
higher cadences (around 90 rpm) than those reported as
being most economical in the majority of previous laboratory
studies. In contrast, during mountain ascents they seem
to adopt a more economical pedalling rate (~70 rpm), possibly
due to the specific demands of this competition phase.



that is good enough for me, I got my confirmation, according to the professionals, do not use a high cadence in the mountains. except if you are froome but as shown from his strava data, his cadence is only slightly higher and that could be down to his osymetric tings

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