Anyone lost a lot of weight, and kept it off?

A light bike doesn't replace good fitness.

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Shrike
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by Shrike

I was doing 8pm to noon for a while. Easiest way to dip your feet into intermittent fasting as you're only adding a few hours onto your normal routine. Thing is I quickly dug myself into a hole this way as I ran out of glycogen stores and couldn't rebuild my energy fast enough to do hard interval workouts.

I've done this twice actually. Once was with fasted rides thrown in around 5am to 6am. Just short ones around 45mins.

Weight and fat loss around that period was dramatic but unsustainable. Messed me up eventually.

Fasting feels pretty good and once you stop eating it's actually pretty easy to stay that way. Stomach must shrink along with your appetite! My problem with this sort of thing is I need to build power not slow my metabolism right down. Even easy rides felt hard as hell. Awful actually. Not fun. Cold too. Black coffee, lots of it, is your friend though if you get into intermittent fasting. Warm water with lemon squeezed in is great too (has a few cals - but no stress),

chunky666
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by chunky666

853guy wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:16 pm

Snip
Interesting thankyou. I will read that later.(not sarcasm by the way I really will read it!)

Like I said to AJS above. I have no problems with diets and how people decide they want to lose weight. I have a problem with diets that dont teach you to eat the way you want to without putting on weight.

Yo-yo dieting is far worse than just being consistantly a bit overweight imo and thats what fad diets tend to lead to. 'Here drink this shake twice a day for 2 months and drop 20lb's but then when youre done go back to eating how you did before and put it back on again but not to worry there is some other diet you can do to drop those 20lb's again, that'll be $300 please!'

I personally need to snack! I cant eat 3 meals a day and nothing more. My head just wont let me do it so instead I plan and regulate that snacking along with all my meals to keep me at a consistant level of intake and that leads to weight coming off.

I strongly beleive that the idea of calories in Vs calories out is the fundemental method to losing weight. I also understand that while there is many factors that affect both the Cals in and the Cals out, but the basic laws of physics cant be changed and energy cant magically dissapear of appear out of thin air!

When i was ~350lb and relatively inactive it was simple. 2500cals a day be it from doughnuts or salad meant the weight fell off. Now i'm ~200lb and doing ~12hours training a week I cant just rely of calories. I still use them as the fundemental measure and it works but I also know that I need to eat certain food types to keep my BMR high and provide me with all the energy I need to train effectively while also trying to shed those last pounds. It's not easy but the basic principle of Cals in Vs Cals out hasnt changed. I eat less the weight comes off quicker but I lack energy, I eat more the weight maintains and I get stronger and faster/better. I have to chose which I want.

The very fact this thread is 11 pages tells you that weight loss is complicated. I accept that. I spend time on Myfitnesspal where you have people who are massivly overweight and if you started giving them all the info that there is on this thread they would just have no clue what to do when 'eat less and move more' is all they really need to know. I come onto a message board like this and when you find a thread like this I find it hard to switch off the simplistic approach to it as there really isnt the type of members on here who need that. When you are looking at weightloss from a w/kg type perspective and not a serious risk of a heart attack perspective things change. Nutirition is more important than the weight side of things.

Anyway, hoefully i've managed to explain my approach and reasons behind my comments a bit? :thumbup:

by Weenie


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onemanpeloton
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by onemanpeloton

I love this thread, its fascinating.

It's also kind of crazy that in this modern day we still don't have more clearly defined facts on the best/proper way of fuelling our bodies.

I've been reading up alot about ketogenic diets and decided it's something I want to try. I'm 6"3 and 85kg so I want to see if I can lose a little bit of weight, but I'm also interested in the metabolic adaptation that should allow me to rider for longer due to the improved use of fat as a fuel. I'll be starting the diet in 2 weeks time (when I'm back off holiday and can start a new routine) and I'll be keeping a diary of my progress. I'd be happy to share it with anyone who may be interested
2017 Giant TCR Disc
2015 Giant TCX
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AJS914
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by AJS914

Chunky, nobody asked about about calories in vs calories out yet you seem to be intent on proving a point.
Whats the problem with snacking? You mention insulin but why not snack on something that wont spike it? Why cut it out altogether?
Even when you eat protein you get an insulin spike. The idea with time restricted eating or intermittent fasting is have periods where you don't have insulin trying to do it's job. If you snack frequently and graze all the time you get insulin pumping out all day. If insulin is in your bloodstream then your body is not going to use stored fat.

Intermittent fasting is a broad term which can mean a lot of things from a 12 hour fast between dinner and breakfast or longer nightly fasts (first meal at noon) or even multi-day fasts.

If one is skinny and doesn't have any insulin resistance working against them then they can just pass on these techniques.

For the record, I'm down about 50-60 pounds from my all time high and I've kept it off for years. I've cut out the bad food and despite riding about 3-5K miles per year and lifting weights the last 20-25 pounds will not come off. It didn't come off with calorie counting either.

AJS914
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by AJS914

onemanpeloton wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:33 am
It's also kind of crazy that in this modern day we still don't have more clearly defined facts on the best/proper way of fuelling our bodies.

I've been reading up alot about ketogenic diets and decided it's something I want to try. I'm 6"3 and 85kg so I want to see if I can lose a little bit of weight, but I'm also interested in the metabolic adaptation that should allow me to rider for longer due to the improved use of fat as a fuel. I'll be starting the diet in 2 weeks time (when I'm back off holiday and can start a new routine) and I'll be keeping a diary of my progress. I'd be happy to share it with anyone who may be interested

You could start with some LCHF meals and time restricted eating since it's essentially part-time keto.

I'm curious about keto too but I fear that it may be at odds with high performance cycling. The latest Velonews Fasttalk podcast is all about keto.

I'm currently reading Gary Taube's book "Why We Get Fat". He basically makes the case against the processed carbs of flour and sugar. In part of the book he talks about indigenous peoples that eat high fat diets with zero sugar or flour and diseases like cancer, heart disease, and diabetes are essentially non-existent among these people.

AJS914
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by AJS914

AJS914 wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:03 pm
Chunky, nobody asked about about calories in vs calories out yet you seem to be intent on proving a point.
Whats the problem with snacking? You mention insulin but why not snack on something that wont spike it? Why cut it out altogether?
Even when you eat protein you get an insulin spike. The idea with time restricted eating or intermittent fasting is have periods where you don't have insulin trying to do it's job. If you snack frequently and graze all the time you get insulin pumping out all day. If insulin is in your bloodstream then your body is not going to use stored fat.

Intermittent fasting is a broad term which can mean a lot of things from a 12 hour fast between dinner and breakfast or longer nightly fasts (first meal at noon) or even multi-day fasts.

If one is skinny and doesn't have any insulin resistance working against them then they can just pass on these techniques.

For the record, I'm down about 50-60 pounds from my all time high and I've kept it off for years. I've cut out the bad food and despite riding about 3-5K miles per year and lifting weights the last 20-25 pounds will not come off. And it didn't come off with calorie counting either.

AJS914
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Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

For now I'm just trying 7pm to 8pm with no snacks between meals. On Friday I did 8pm to noon as a first experiment and rode 75 minutes at Z1/2. I felt good though the legs were a little more tired than usual after a 75 minute easy ride. I may do this once or twice a week if it helps with weight loss.


Shrike wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:11 am
I was doing 8pm to noon for a while. Easiest way to dip your feet into intermittent fasting as you're only adding a few hours onto your normal routine. Thing is I quickly dug myself into a hole this way as I ran out of glycogen stores and couldn't rebuild my energy fast enough to do hard interval workouts.

I've done this twice actually. Once was with fasted rides thrown in around 5am to 6am. Just short ones around 45mins.

Weight and fat loss around that period was dramatic but unsustainable. Messed me up eventually.

joejack951
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Location: Wilmington, DE

by joejack951

AJS914 wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:03 pm
For the record, I'm down about 50-60 pounds from my all time high and I've kept it off for years. I've cut out the bad food and despite riding about 3-5K miles per year and lifting weights the last 20-25 pounds will not come off. It didn't come off with calorie counting either.
What is your current height and weight? And to your last statement, when you were 'counting calories' how much effort was put into ensuring a calorie deficit, i.e. did you actually measure/weigh what you ate and consider every component of every meal or was it just all estimated? I'd be fascinated to see your records if you have them showing how you achieved a real daily calorie deficit but didn't lose any weight.

FWIW, I'm still at the same mid-60s kg I was at the beginning of this thread. Not for lack of exercise as I have been running a ton (up to 80+ km/week) but I just get really hungry as result. The times I've tried to suppress the urge to eat result in me being miserable which doesn't work well with a wife and two little kids around. I am eating very healthy at least, having cut out all sugary drinks and nearly all bread. The bulk of my calories come from vegetables, fruit, nuts, and olive oil. And apparently I can offset burning ~5000 calories/week running on that type of eating!

Regarding that, can anyone recommend some highly filling foods that may help me eat fewer calories without feeling ravenous? I typically start my day with a good 15 grams of fiber in my bowl of cereal and eat more fiber throughout the day. So it's not for lack of trying to eat filling foods.

Shrike
Posts: 1383
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:08 pm

by Shrike

From everything I've tried eggs seem to work best for satiety with least risk of an insulin spike.

Though I'd love to find a non-animal product replacement that works as effectively.

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onemanpeloton
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by onemanpeloton

AJS914 wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:12 pm
onemanpeloton wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:33 am
It's also kind of crazy that in this modern day we still don't have more clearly defined facts on the best/proper way of fuelling our bodies.

I've been reading up alot about ketogenic diets and decided it's something I want to try. I'm 6"3 and 85kg so I want to see if I can lose a little bit of weight, but I'm also interested in the metabolic adaptation that should allow me to rider for longer due to the improved use of fat as a fuel. I'll be starting the diet in 2 weeks time (when I'm back off holiday and can start a new routine) and I'll be keeping a diary of my progress. I'd be happy to share it with anyone who may be interested

You could start with some LCHF meals and time restricted eating since it's essentially part-time keto.

I'm curious about keto too but I fear that it may be at odds with high performance cycling. The latest Velonews Fasttalk podcast is all about keto.

I'm currently reading Gary Taube's book "Why We Get Fat". He basically makes the case against the processed carbs of flour and sugar. In part of the book he talks about indigenous peoples that eat high fat diets with zero sugar or flour and diseases like cancer, heart disease, and diabetes are essentially non-existent among these people.
I've been experimenting with LCHF meals for a couple of weeks now but more as a test of satiety and meal enjoyment than anything else. My understanding is that to really see the benefits of keto, you need to fully commit to it. I've also been doing fasted morning commutes to work and lost 5kg over the course of about 6 months, although I changed other eating habits as well so fasted riding can't take all the credit there.

As much as I enjoy reading about it all, I realised that the only way to be certain is to try it for myself.
2017 Giant TCR Disc
2015 Giant TCX
2016 Cube Stereo 140

AJS914
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Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

Let us know how it goes!

joejack951
Posts: 451
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Location: Wilmington, DE

by joejack951

Shrike wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:27 am
From everything I've tried eggs seem to work best for satiety with least risk of an insulin spike.

Though I'd love to find a non-animal product replacement that works as effectively.
Fat/protein-wise, tofu isn't that far off from egg based on total calories. I might have to give both a try perhaps in the form of a breakfast wrap with kale and some veggies. If only it was as convenient as a bowl of cereal...

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853guy
Posts: 160
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:48 pm

by 853guy

joejack951 wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:10 pm
Shrike wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:27 am
From everything I've tried eggs seem to work best for satiety with least risk of an insulin spike.

Though I'd love to find a non-animal product replacement that works as effectively.
Fat/protein-wise, tofu isn't that far off from egg based on total calories. I might have to give both a try perhaps in the form of a breakfast wrap with kale and some veggies. If only it was as convenient as a bowl of cereal...
"In conclusion, soy protein, regardless of isoflavone content, decreased DHT and DHT/testosterone with minor effects on other hormones, providing evidence for some effects of soy protein on hormones."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15735098

Given testosterone's role in maintaining lean muscle mass, insulin sensitivty and regulation of metabolism, I choose non-soy protein sources as much as I can.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4312307/

Best,

853guy

joejack951
Posts: 451
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:50 pm
Location: Wilmington, DE

by joejack951

853guy wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:46 pm
joejack951 wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:10 pm
Shrike wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:27 am
From everything I've tried eggs seem to work best for satiety with least risk of an insulin spike.

Though I'd love to find a non-animal product replacement that works as effectively.
Fat/protein-wise, tofu isn't that far off from egg based on total calories. I might have to give both a try perhaps in the form of a breakfast wrap with kale and some veggies. If only it was as convenient as a bowl of cereal...
"In conclusion, soy protein, regardless of isoflavone content, decreased DHT and DHT/testosterone with minor effects on other hormones, providing evidence for some effects of soy protein on hormones."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15735098

Given testosterone's role in maintaining lean muscle mass, insulin sensitivty and regulation of metabolism, I choose non-soy protein sources as much as I can.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4312307/

Best,

853guy
Let me guess: that study was funded by the milk/meat lobby and this study was funded by the soy lobby: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19524224

"No significant effects of soy protein or isoflavone intake on T, SHBG, free T, or FAI were detected regardless of statistical model."

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853guy
Posts: 160
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:48 pm

by 853guy

joejack951 wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:07 pm
853guy wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:46 pm
joejack951 wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:10 pm
Shrike wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:27 am
From everything I've tried eggs seem to work best for satiety with least risk of an insulin spike.

Though I'd love to find a non-animal product replacement that works as effectively.
Fat/protein-wise, tofu isn't that far off from egg based on total calories. I might have to give both a try perhaps in the form of a breakfast wrap with kale and some veggies. If only it was as convenient as a bowl of cereal...
"In conclusion, soy protein, regardless of isoflavone content, decreased DHT and DHT/testosterone with minor effects on other hormones, providing evidence for some effects of soy protein on hormones."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15735098

Given testosterone's role in maintaining lean muscle mass, insulin sensitivty and regulation of metabolism, I choose non-soy protein sources as much as I can.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4312307/

Best,

853guy
Let me guess: that study was funded by the milk/meat lobby and this study was funded by the soy lobby: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19524224

"No significant effects of soy protein or isoflavone intake on T, SHBG, free T, or FAI were detected regardless of statistical model."
They're all just data points, Joejack. Each person should decide what's best for them, based on the available, and sometimes, inconclusive/conflicting research.

For whatever it's worth, a quick re-read of my post will show the only personal pronoun used above is “I”. That’s because I was sharing what I do, not what he/she/they should do, and certainly not what you should do.

Best,

853guy

by Weenie


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