Anyone lost a lot of weight, and kept it off?

A light bike doesn't replace good fitness.

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zzmkdw
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Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:52 pm

by zzmkdw

In response to a few of the above comments.

I do have a desk job. I am engineer in the auto industry. I sit on my butt, rather at my desk or in a vehicle, all day long. I walk 5 miles every morning before work. That's 10,000 steps. I generally get another 3000 steps during working hours and another 3000 walking the dogs after work.

I chose the foods and 6 week duration for a reason. First off, I chose 6 weeks because i felt that was about how long i need to form new habits and the period needed to be long enough for me to compare the method to the results, but still be able to make small adjustments if something wasn't working and not have to start all over. Second, the food. I chose the most nutrient dense but yet filling foods that I a)liked and b) found to be filling. During the second 6 weeks I introduced fish for 4 days’ worth of lunch. I still lost weight, but i found that i felt hungrier by my next meal, so i went back on the turkey. It's possible this was all mental, but i wanted to make it as easy as possible to stick to the diet. I also tried using just protein shakes for my in between meal's, thinking the high quantity of protein would satisfy my hunger pangs, but it didn't so I rarely drank more than one a day.

As far as not getting enough nutrients due to a lack of variety in my food. You are probably correct. However, I wasn't healthy before i started. I was diagnosed with non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. low blood pressure and high cholesterol. One month after going into maintenance mode i had a blood screen done by my doctor and he said my numbers were some of the best he had ever seen. I had reversed the fatty liver disease and high cholesterol, but my blood pressure is still a little on the low side. So i moved the needle in the right direction and that was really my only concern.

Now, of course i eat a variety of foods. This of course is easier now that i am eating a reasonable amount of calories for my activity level. I'll have another blood screen in a month, so we'll see what has changed.

Now for the talk about steroids. I was an amateur body builder when i was younger. I took my share of steroids when i was competing. My first cycle i under ate, because i didn't want to get fat, and had very little gains. If i remember correctly it was about 2lbs in 5 weeks (that's still really good). After getting some help from those more knowledgably i did get significant gains on subsequent cycles, but i had to eat a lot. Testosterone would work to help cut weight, but there are better choices out there for cutting weight. i think there are a lot of misconceptions about steroid use. They are not a magic bullet. You still have to put in the work. So if you were to try steroids to lose weight, you would still have to diet and exercise intensely. The difference is that you will recover much quicker, allowing you to do more. I have a co-worker that is on TRT from a doctor. He also works outs and lives a pretty healthy lifestyle. He's lean, but he was lean before he started TRT. He doesn't lift or perform any better in sports but he's on such a minute amount of TRT that he won't see really any performance gains. His doctor is basically level setting him to the amount of testosterone someone his age should produce.

I think steroids have a stigma that is probably not entirely deserved. There can be a therapeutic use for them, particularly for endurance athletes. I would consider taking them again if i could get what i wanted from a reliable source at a reasonable price.

by Weenie


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TonyM
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by TonyM

Yepp don’t look for perfection in terms of your nutrition. Improvements are good. And sustainable improvements even better. You seems to be in the good direction and your heath improves! Good for you!

AJS914
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by AJS914

TonyM wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 2:27 am
So no complex carbs like potatoes, pasta and bread at all?
One way to look at it is that in those foods you have a lot of energy (calories) but not a lot of nutrition (vitamins and minerals). So if you are trying to maintain weight and keep calories in check then avoiding those calorie dense foods makes sense. Those foods also have a high glycemic index meaning that they raise blood sugar faster than say broccoli or spinach which in turns makes you want to eat more.

Personally, I've cut out 90% of "white" food out. I'll have a sandwich on bread maybe once a week. I'll have rice if we go out to Thai food (once a month). I'll cook roasted red potatoes at home but I'll only eat 2-3 small ones.

AJS914
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Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

For me personally, the good news is that I've lost 15 pounds this year since January and I'm keeping it off with calorie counting and fitness tracking (Apple Watch / Strava).

The bad news is that at 52 the weight is hard to shed. When I was 30 I'd start riding 100 miles a week in the spring and I'd easily lose 10 pounds a month. This winter I was putting in base miles @ 35F and hitting the gym and didn't lose any weight. I'm feeling fit though. The weight lifting is really helping and I'm breaking Strava PRs on almost every ride lately.

On a good day I'm within 15 pounds of my goal weight now so I'm thinking of making a good sustained effort for a couple of months and see if I can lose it. Once I lose it I know I can keep calorie counting to keep it off. I would consider a phramaceutical aid for a couple of months if I thought it was safe.

SANGJINKWAK
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Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 12:58 pm

by SANGJINKWAK

Are you eating a lot less calories across the board? Sweet potatoes, beans and salsa sounds like it's only a 250 calorie lunch.

eforce123
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Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:27 pm

by eforce123

It is a process of trial and error for nutrition. Some ppl do well on high fats and lower carbs and others do will on the opposite. General dieting rule is 40/40/20 protein, carbs, and fats.
I like oats as a primary source for carbs and bananas before a ride. I am still experimenting with my diet. I am new to these long aerobic workouts. Before I got on a bike I have never done cardio for more than 45 mins on an elliptical machine.

Robinio
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Joined: Thu May 31, 2018 5:32 pm

by Robinio

eforce123 wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 4:36 pm
General dieting rule is 40/40/20 protein, carbs, and fats.
Not sure 40/40/20 is a general dieting rule? I tried losing weight a few times, but it wasn't until I started lifting weights that I noticed a difference in my body. However, at no point was were my protein calories near 40%!

I designed a re-comp routine around some research I did, and managed to add over 8lbs of muscle and lose 6lbs of fat over a 3 month period.

At the time, around 40% of my calories came from fats, and about 25-30% from protein.

eforce123
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:27 pm

by eforce123

so you were doing 40 fats, 25-30 protein and 30-40 carbs?

In the bodybuilding industry (where I came from) this is the general rule HOWEVER, bodybuilders hold a lot more muscle on their frames then cyclists and I can easily see my the protein needs to come down and the carbs need to come up for the long endurance rides that cyclist use. I am playing with this dieting game myself, having never done more then 30-45mins on easy to moderate cardio. Now I am cycling for 1-2.5 hours on a bike. (its a different world for sure)

AJS914
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Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

I'm wondering if anyone here is using / has used any intermittent fasting techniques to lose weight and keep it off?

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853guy
Posts: 153
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:48 pm

by 853guy

AJS914 wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:17 pm
I'm wondering if anyone here is using / has used any intermittent fasting techniques to lose weight and keep it off?
Hi AJS914,

Yes. For the last four years I've only been eating between a six-hour window 90% of the time (sometimes it's four hours, sometimes up to eight). I don't do alternative day or a 5/2 2/5 day thing as that proved unsustainable for me.

A daily eating window made it much easier for me to know that I will eat during some stage of the day (whole foods, Bulletproof-style coffee - water and herbal teas as often as I feel), that it will be nutrient-dense, and can be scheduled around normal life with family and friends.

For instance, if I know we'll be having dinner with friends in the evening, I'll have a Bulletproof-style coffee after lunch as my first "meal", and then not eat until dinner. Or, if I've gone for a ride in the morning, I'll have a Bulletproof-style coffee straight after, and then follow that up with lunch but not eat again until the next day. I have a single glass of red wine most evenings.

On days in which say, I've finished my window but we get a late invitation out or decide to do pizzas with the kids, I'll eat, but then have a smaller meal the following day and go back to the six hour window.

I can't say what percentage intermittent fasting has been responsible for keeping the weight off relative to diet and exercise, but in combination with a whole foods diet (high in protein, fat and fibre) and regular exercise (weights, some riding family/work permitting), I've managed to maintain weight as well as muscle mass and tone. I don't look like Wiggins circa Paris-Roubaix 2009, but then as a recreational cyclist interested in longevity and health rather than performance gains at the highest level, looking like that has no value to me.

There's lots of research emerging about intermittent fasting (and a quite a bit of BS too), but data points are accumulating. As a teaser, you could check out this guy here:

https://twitter.com/GuruAnaerobic

Best,

853guy

AJS914
Posts: 2191
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

I just read The Obesity Code by Jason Fung. I have to say I've always thought of the fasting thing as out there and wacko but I know a guy who has gone from 250 pounds to 185 and the only fasting he's implemented is a 12 hour nightly fast. Basically he's stopped snacking after dinner. He's also following a lowish carb / whole foods diet. He credits the 12 hour fast more than he credits the diet.

Fung recommends no snacking between meals and the nightly fast to start with so I'm going to give that a go. My diet is already very health and free of sugar and junk food but I've been struggling to lose that last 20 pounds. I've tightened up the diet a tiny bit more by elimating higher glycemic carbs and I've added more salads.

chunky666
Posts: 115
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:01 pm

by chunky666

Here's what I got from this, but first a basic observation/assumption that I thik is relatively correct.

The average person who is ~50lb overweight will eat relatively normal/sensible meals but the excess weight stems from snacking. Morbidly obese and above type people tend to just get it wrong everywhere, meals and snacking.
AJS914 wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:07 pm
I just read The Obesity Code by Jason Fung. I have to say I've always thought of the fasting thing as out there and wacko but I know a guy who has gone from 250 pounds to 185 and the only fasting he's implemented is a 12 hour nightly fast. Basically he's stopped snacking after dinner. He's also following a lowish carb / whole foods diet. He credits the 12 hour fast more than he credits the diet.
12hour nightly fast? Huh? Youre asleep for most of that so it's hardly fasting! It's just stopping snacking.

Hardly a surprise he credits the 'fast' more than the diet and thats where all the excess calories were!
Fung recommends no snacking between meals and the nightly fast to start with so I'm going to give that a go.
So basically dropping calories consumed without making you change what you eat?
My diet is already very health and free of sugar and junk food but I've been struggling to lose that last 20 pounds. I've tightened up the diet a tiny bit more by elimating higher glycemic carbs and I've added more salads.
If your diet is already as good as you say it is you need to look at how much healthy food you eat. you'd be surprised how many calories you can pack into a healthy meal, even a salad.

My salad i've just made up for lunch tomorrow ~500 cals and there is nothing particularily high in calories in it. 70 for an egg, 60 for half a tin of tuna, 75 for 40grams of couscous, etc etc. You then add a 'bit' of dressing and you may aswell have eaten a big mac!

If you're serious about those last 20lb then digital scales and a log is the best and simplest way of dealing with it. By all means cut out whatever you want but still track those calories. You cant change the laws of physics. Burn more than you consume and you'll eventually drop those last 20.

[prepares for the 'not not all calories are equal' crowd to pipe up!] :D

AJS914
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Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

Nowhere in Fung's does he suggest to cut calories. You are welcome to eat your snack calories during meal times. According to the book, the point of fasting and no snacking between meals is to provide the body longer periods of time without insulin being spiked.

I've been logging all my food and calorie counting for months now and not much has been happening. My riding this spring has been good. I've been breaking a lot of Strava PRs but not losing much weight.

If time restricted eating / fasting is the hack I need I'm willing to give it a try.
Last edited by AJS914 on Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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853guy
Posts: 153
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:48 pm

by 853guy

chunky666 wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:55 pm
Here's what I got from this, but first a basic observation/assumption that I thik is relatively correct.

The average person who is ~50lb overweight will eat relatively normal/sensible meals but the excess weight stems from snacking. Morbidly obese and above type people tend to just get it wrong everywhere, meals and snacking.

12hour nightly fast? Huh? Youre asleep for most of that so it's hardly fasting! It's just stopping snacking.

Hardly a surprise he credits the 'fast' more than the diet and thats where all the excess calories were!

If your diet is already as good as you say it is you need to look at how much healthy food you eat. you'd be surprised how many calories you can pack into a healthy meal, even a salad.

My salad i've just made up for lunch tomorrow ~500 cals and there is nothing particularily high in calories in it. 70 for an egg, 60 for half a tin of tuna, 75 for 40grams of couscous, etc etc. You then add a 'bit' of dressing and you may aswell have eaten a big mac!

If you're serious about those last 20lb then digital scales and a log is the best and simplest way of dealing with it. By all means cut out whatever you want but still track those calories. You cant change the laws of physics. Burn more than you consume and you'll eventually drop those last 20.

[prepares for the 'not not all calories are equal' crowd to pipe up!] :D
For whatever it may be worth...

"3 CALORIES AND NONLINEARITY

Many only view fasting as a means of losing weight by “calorie reduction”. This is a gross misunderstanding of its utility, diminishing fasting to the superficial world of dieting. It misses the fundamental point that the main benefits of fasting derive from the intermittent or periodic abstinence from food, not total calories. Further, they have little (practically zero) understanding that the effect of calories on the body is nonlinear; 3000 calories in one day, then zero the next has a different effect to 1500 calories each day for two days.

Studies have shown this nonlinear effect on the body composition of mice following a time restricted diet; and positive effects on glucose metabolism and neuronal resistance to excitotoxic stress when following an alternate day fasting protocol, both independent of caloric intake.

Traditionally, nutrition science has focused on average ‘balanced’ daily intakes, however the problem with the average in a nonlinear world is that it comes at a cost – if we are crossing a river by foot, we want to know more than the average depth. In a nonlinear world the distribution or volatility of something is just as, or more, important than the average. In mathematics there’s a property known as Jensen’s Inequality - simply put, if there’s a nonlinear relationship between an input (calories) and an output (effect), and if we look at the output for two different inputs, the average of the outputs is not equal to what we would find for the output from the average of the inputs. As an example, we see Jensen’s Inequality in chemical reactions and their relationship with temperature. If we run a reaction for a certain amount of time at one temperature, T1 and then change the temperature to T2 and run it for the same amount of time, the extent of the reaction will be greater than had we run it at the average temperature (T1 + T2)/2. The reaction runs faster at the higher temperature compared to how much the colder temperature slows it down.

So, the effects of fasting are independent of average calorie intake..."

Taken from Anaerobics: Destruction & Reconstruction by Mark Baker

http://online.anyflip.com/metj/xbjo/#p=1

by Weenie


chunky666
Posts: 115
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:01 pm

by chunky666

AJS914 wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:06 pm
Nowhere in Fung's does he suggest to cut calories. You are welcome to eat your snack calories during meal times. According to the book, the point of fasting and no snacking between meals is to provide the body longer periods of time without insulin being spiked.
And If you decide to lose weight via any of the various milkshake diets they also dont mention anything about calories. It doesnt mean that the main goal of the diet isnt to do exatly that though!

If I said to you. Here's a normal dinner of Meat, veg, and potato but also you need to eat half a pack of biscuits and a bag of crisps you'd think that silly but to seperate the biscuits and crisps away from the meal and eat them 2 hours later in front of the TV would be perfectly acceptable. Result is the same food intake but one is fine the other not so much.

Most 'diets' are merely a method to trick you into eating less. Northing more!

Whats the problem with snacking? You mention insulin but why not snack on something that wont spike it? Why cut it out altogether? People have habits, habits are hard to break, why force yourself into doing something you dont need to do when just a change of the foods themselves solves the problem?

I've been logging all my food and calorie counting for months now and not much has been happening. My riding this spring has been good. I've been breaking a lot of Strava PRs but not losing much weight.
When you log do you weigh it? As someone who logs and weighs all there food it's pretty incredible how many double portions of things i end up logging because a single portion is just rediculously tiny! Breakfast cereal being the obvious one! Ask any normal person to pour out a single portion of cereal and I can almost 100% be sure they will pour more than double the recommended amount!

Do you measure yourself as well as weigh yourself? if you've had a good beginning to the year of riding could it be that you've merely dropped some fat but gained a bit of muscle to keep the scales level?

If time restricted eating / fasting is the hack I need I'm willing to give it a try.
Dont get me wrong I have no problem with any of the diets out there, except maybe anything being sold via multi level marketing schemes, however I do hate it when they get sold as the latest greatest, bestest, most fantastic, better than all others, diet when all they are really doing is tricking you into eating less and moving more.

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