Cheat meals: If so, when?

[853guy]

Hi all,

I’m wanting to broach the above subject, but first, a disclaimer.

I’m not a nutritionist. (1)

Does anyone do a cheat meal (as opposed to a cheat “day”), and, if so when you do it?

Conventional wisdom - and by that, I mean, stuff on the internet - suggests a cheat meal should be eaten after some sort of HIIT, in which the metabolism is already stoked and burning calories, with the additional calories consumed during the cheat meal increasing the body’s leptin levels, reducing ghrelin and potentially increasing thyroid hormone production, to further increase metabolism. (2)

If you do a cheat meal, does it occur after high intensity intervals on the bike, followed by a rest day, or after high intensity intervals on the bike, followed by a less intense but higher distance ride the next day, potentially to take advantage of the increase in glycogen the body can burn for fuel?

For context, I have a pretty healthy diet, mostly consisting of whole foods, drink one glass of red wine per evening, drink plenty of water, herbal teas and a coffee per day, and eat almost zero refined/processed food, white foods or soda.

Looking forward to any experiences.

Thanks!

853guy


(1) I’m also not Tim Ferriss, Martin Berkhan, a personal trainer, a bro-science advocate, a cross-fit practitioner, a registered health professional, or have a degree in sports medicine. I’m just a guy who likes riding bikes.

(2) If this is way off base, please don’t hesitate to help me better understand this. Like I say, I just like riding bikes.

[Jenmoss]

Interesting talking about cheat meals . This term is usually associated with body builders who are cutting for a show. A cheat meal would be some carbs ,pasta etc ( for a cutting body builder) For a cyclist who has been out on her/ his bike for 3 / 4 hours than can eat what they like when finish although it is better to eat more healthy but eating some cake or biscuits is not going to kill you.
I

[AJS914]

I think he's talking about hacking the cheat meal (which I assume to mean burgers or pizza out) so that it has the least bad side effects.

I think if you aren't racing then it probably doesn't matter that much. If your Sunday group ride is your most important ride of the week then you probably don't want a hute cheat meal to be on Saturday night.

When I was racing I experimented with diets and a super healthy, no cheat, diet was the best performance improvement I ever found. So, I'd say limit cheats as much as possible and have then the furthest away from interval days, your race, or generally when you want to perform the best.

[TonyM]

My usual cheat meals are some candies when I am on the home trainer in the winter.

[boots2000]

If you are going to binge- Binge. Get it on and get it over.
Cheat meal has the connotation that it has a positive effect on your program.

If you need to cheat too often, you are likely eating too little, wrong proportions and/or not enough food quality.

[853guy]

I think he's talking about hacking the cheat meal (which I assume to mean burgers or pizza out) so that it has the least bad side effects.

I think if you aren't racing then it probably doesn't matter that much. If your Sunday group ride is your most important ride of the week then you probably don't want a hute cheat meal to be on Saturday night.

When I was racing I experimented with diets and a super healthy, no cheat, diet was the best performance improvement I ever found. So, I'd say limit cheats as much as possible and have then the furthest away from interval days, your race, or generally when you want to perform the best.

Yes, it’s more or less exactly that. A burger and fries is like heaven to me, though like I say, I limit that sort of eating to one meal, once a week.

It’s not so much that I’m looking to “hack” it as it is to make the most out of it. From what I’ve read, I’m trying to take advantage of the elevated levels of insulin resistance and glycogen in the 24 hours after the cheat meal, especially in cases in which during the week energy has been depleted, the body’s in a caloric deficit, and the risk is a plateau of energy (leading to a plateau in training), slowing of the metabolism (catabolism) and hormonal imbalance that can occur from strict nutritional adherence and regular riding.

What I’m wanting to work out is if I’m going to have a burger and fries once a week, or a meal out with friends (rather than binging for binging’s sake), what type of riding should I be doing before and/or after the meal?

To answer my own question based on the information I have, it seems that on the day of the cheat meal, a HIIT riding session should take place, and on the day after, a longer, less intense ride in order to take advantage of the elevated glycogen levels from the night before. Again, keen to hear anyone else’s perspective.

Cheers!

853guy

[boots2000]

It still sounds like you are trying to spin a negative into a positive.

If you want to eat something like that once per week- Make it after a hard day and before a longer day- That way you have at least elevated your metabolism and will burn significant calories on the next day.

[853guy]

It still sounds like you are trying to spin a negative into a positive.

If you want to eat something like that once per week- Make it after a hard day and before a longer day- That way you have at least elevated your metabolism and will burn significant calories on the next day.

Hi boots,

I'm not trying to spin anything. I'm simply looking at the data in terms of leptin, ghrelin, thyroid hormone production and glycogen and trying to make an educated decision.

Why would you say one meal a week of elevated calories and macros is a negative (especially in light of the hard day before the meal and a longer day after?)

Cheers,

853guy

[Jenmoss]

I think he's talking about hacking the cheat meal (which I assume to mean burgers or pizza out) so that it has the least bad side effects.

I think if you aren't racing then it probably doesn't matter that much. If your Sunday group ride is your most important ride of the week then you probably don't want a hute cheat meal to be on Saturday night.

When I was racing I experimented with diets and a super healthy, no cheat, diet was the best performance improvement I ever found. So, I'd say limit cheats as much as possible and have then the furthest away from interval days, your race, or generally when you want to perform the best.

Yes, it’s more or less exactly that. A burger and fries is like heaven to me, though like I say, I limit that sort of eating to one meal, once a week.

It’s not so much that I’m looking to “hack” it as it is to make the most out of it. From what I’ve read, I’m trying to take advantage of the elevated levels of insulin resistance and glycogen in the 24 hours after the cheat meal, especially in cases in which during the week energy has been depleted, the body’s in a caloric deficit, and the risk is a plateau of energy (leading to a plateau in training), slowing of the metabolism (catabolism) and hormonal imbalance that can occur from strict nutritional adherence and regular riding.

What I’m wanting to work out is if I’m going to have a burger and fries once a week, or a meal out with friends (rather than binging for binging’s sake), what type of riding should I be doing before and/or after the meal?

To answer my own question based on the information I have, it seems that on the day of the cheat meal, a HIIT riding session should take place, and on the day after, a longer, less intense ride in order to take advantage of the elevated glycogen levels from the night before. Again, keen to hear anyone else’s perspective.

Cheers

853guy

If you train the same , in time your body will adapt and be expecting you to the same things at the same times . It’s always good to change things around otherwise your progress will slow or reach a plateau. This also applies to your diet ,meal plan. You need stimulation and change or even taking some time off can be a effective way to progress. I’ve known body builders who can eat junk food all day And stay lean and train hard ,others get fat just walking past mc Donald’s and feel like crap after eating junk food . I think if your eating a burger and fries once a week then I would just enjoy it and not worry to much about the effects . You can count your carbs , protein , fats etc . The best effects for me are semi fasting . It really stimulates your testosterone etc and gives you a lot of energy , but it may not work for you as it does for others . May be worth a google, it may be a way to bridge a few weeks when you,want to be less,strict with your diet. Pro riders carb up and keep eating throughout a race . Food energy . Protein builds muscle . It’s pretty simple, but not always easy to get the right balance. Sometimes you can overthink and the effects your looking for are really minimal . Consistency and putting your body under physical stress so it break s down and stimulates receptors so that you get stronger faster etc
Good luck

[AJS914]

I'm not trying to spin anything. I'm simply looking at the data in terms of leptin, ghrelin, thyroid hormone production and glycogen and trying to make an educated decision.

Why would you say one meal a week of elevated calories and macros is a negative

Elevated calories is not necessarily negative. It really depends on the meal. To me, if you go to a nice place and get a grass fed burger, a salad and eat some fries the meal wouldn't even be a negative. If you go to a crappy fast food place, eat a poor quality burger, a mountain of fries deep fried in poor quality oil, and top it off with a milkshake then you are definitely in the negative zone.

So do it smart and there is zero negative. You'll ride off any extra calories. If you insist on the low quality burger with zero vegetables and low nutrition value then just do it and don't worry about it. I don't think any hacking you do will make any measurable difference.

I once did a race on a road meal from McDonalds and performed the poorest I ever did at any race. I got dropped in a crit and I was a good crit racer. Getting dropped wasn't normal.

[853guy]

I'm not trying to spin anything. I'm simply looking at the data in terms of leptin, ghrelin, thyroid hormone production and glycogen and trying to make an educated decision.

Why would you say one meal a week of elevated calories and macros is a negative

Elevated calories is not necessarily negative. It really depends on the meal. To me, if you go to a nice place and get a grass fed burger, a salad and eat some fries the meal wouldn't even be a negative. If you go to a crappy fast food place, eat a poor quality burger, a mountain of fries deep fried in poor quality oil, and top it off with a milkshake then you are definitely in the negative zone.

So do it smart and there is zero negative. You'll ride off any extra calories. If you insist on the low quality burger with zero vegetables and low nutrition value then just do it and don't worry about it. I don't think any hacking you do will make any measurable difference.

I once did a race on a road meal from McDonalds and performed the poorest I ever did at any race. I got dropped in a crit and I was a good crit racer. Getting dropped wasn't normal.

Agreed. Quality of macros matters (in the context of the above discussion).

Thanks for the reply. Appreciate it.

853guy

[853guy]

If you train the same , in time your body will adapt and be expecting you to the same things at the same times . It’s always good to change things around otherwise your progress will slow or reach a plateau. This also applies to your diet ,meal plan. You need stimulation and change or even taking some time off can be a effective way to progress. I’ve known body builders who can eat junk food all day And stay lean and train hard ,others get fat just walking past mc Donald’s and feel like crap after eating junk food . I think if your eating a burger and fries once a week then I would just enjoy it and not worry to much about the effects . You can count your carbs , protein , fats etc . The best effects for me are semi fasting . It really stimulates your testosterone etc and gives you a lot of energy , but it may not work for you as it does for others . May be worth a google, it may be a way to bridge a few weeks when you,want to be less,strict with your diet. Pro riders carb up and keep eating throughout a race . Food energy . Protein builds muscle . It’s pretty simple, but not always easy to get the right balance. Sometimes you can overthink and the effects your looking for are really minimal . Consistency and putting your body under physical stress so it break s down and stimulates receptors so that you get stronger faster etc
Good luck

Hi Jenmoss,

Yes, I agree, everyone's different in terms of how they respond to certain stimuli relative to their DNA, bio-physiology, nutritional/exercise history and of course, their goals. I've been doing intermittent fasting and fasted exercise for the last couple of years, in combination with a whole foods diet. I really like it, feel clear minded, have heaps of energy and eat as I describe above.

However, we recently moved to the south of France. It's not only whetted my appetite for the incredibly great (and rich) food on offer, the surrounding mountains have brought out the roadie in me, which is a surprise as I've always considered myself a hard-core MTB guy. So I'm now riding road every second day, alternating with kettle bells and free weight exercises, and have been working on building a base.

Having felt like I'm plateauing a little, and wanting to push myself a little further (and hopefully, ride Mont Ventoux in the summer...!), I'm trying to work out where the type of "cheat" meal might fit into things, given the number of great restaurants everywhere (and my professed love of burgers). It's a bit of a work-in-progress, in that food is such a central part of being able to push harder and recover faster, yet I'm not the type of guy who wants to go to a world-class restaurant and order the salad.

I think the way forward - for me, given I'm not (yet) competing - is to keep pushing in terms of riding, and let my body tell me what it needs, do a HIIT session prior to any meals out, and then burn off the stored glycogen the next day in a longer, lower intensity ride. At least, that's the thinking.

Thanks for sharing your experience, Jenmoss. Much appreciated.

Best,

853guy

[Jenmoss]

Love it France . Was in Nice back in October. So far I found it the best place to ride. I did plan to ride a climb every other day but found myself out on my bike every day
The climbs are so close that you can be back within a hour . Sounds like you know exactly what your doing.
Good luck

[waltthizzney]

go high carb plant based vegan and stop worry about calories. i eat until im stuff and cant keep on weight

[LouisN]

My own 2 cents experience on diet and the consequences on your training and performance = empirism.
There are too many variable in nutrition to apply a universal formula to every human metabolism, age, sex, riding experience, food habits, etc...
Try some stuff, and see what works best for you. That's the fun part of it (those are cheat beverages in the pints )

Louis