Sufferfest 4DP?

A light bike doesn't replace good fitness.

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whydobearsxplod
Posts: 159
Joined: Tue May 08, 2012 3:10 am
Location: Santa Barbara

by whydobearsxplod

Apex, let's not start that whole debate in this thread.


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chipomarc
Posts: 131
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:56 pm

by chipomarc

It is very interesting that Dr. Coggan never refers to FTP as being 95% of a 20 minute test. If this is the case perhaps I have built all of my training zones off of a value that is artificially high which would in-turn make my performance management chart inaccurate as well.


And it will be artificially low if you haven't done any full out efforts at the 5s, 1min, 5min and 20min points with that new system

by Weenie


AJS914
Posts: 2039
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

This sounds similar to what Xert is doing.

whydobearsxplod
Posts: 159
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Location: Santa Barbara

by whydobearsxplod

One thing Xert is doing which I don't see elsewhere is "maximal power available". I've found this to be a very useful concept.


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acoggan
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:28 pm

by acoggan

apex wrote:
ms6073 wrote:
Conza wrote:
acoggan wrote:Mine, actually.

:o :?:

:shock: AKA Dr. Andrew Coggan PH.D.
Might I suggest you browse one of the articles authored by the quoted forum user above: What Is Functional Threshold Power?


It is very interesting that Dr. Coggan never refers to FTP as being 95% of a 20 minute test. If this is the case perhaps I have built all of my training zones off of a value that is artificially high which would in-turn make my performance management chart inaccurate as well.


It is possible. OTOH, it also possible that 95% of 20 min power (Hunter's rule-of-thumb) underestimates your actual FTP, such that things are skewed the other way.

IOW, while 95% is correct on average, there can be minor (and sometimes not so minor) differences between individuals, due to difference in resistance to fatigue at supra-FTP intensities. That's why I have never suggested that people prescribe supra-FTP intervals on FTP (as, e.g., Sufferfest has apparently mistakenly and naively done until now), and why individually-optimized power AND duration targets (i.e., iLevels) were developed and introduced over 4 y ago.

Rubik
Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:59 pm

by Rubik

Last winter I read Hunter Allen's blogpost on vo2 max workouts and did a whole winter based on his recommendations about 115-120%. Oddly enough, never seemed to help my 5-8 min power (what I would think would be indicative of vo2 max), though definitely seemed to help 10-20 minute power. Turns out once I got plugged into wko4 enough that it estimated vo2 max wattage closer to 130% of ftp. A whole different ballgame at that park. Hoping to utilize intervals in that range a bit more in late winter/early spring, but they're very, very hard.

In any case, multiple points is useful. My ftp is closer to 91% of my 20 min power, it seems, but I generally just do longer intervals at a wattage I can do. Whether or not that's at ftp or 90% or 105%, etc., depends on a lot of things going on.

Shorter intervals, though, I can crank out quite a bit better and consistently hit certain wattages.
Cat 1

gurk700
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:40 pm

by gurk700

Very late reply but I thought I'd chip in as I JUST took the test (got done 15 mins ago)
Once you get past the hyperbole and marketing crap, it's actually super useful to base your training according to the 4 data points.
While all the other training programs pinpoint the same 4 data points (or even more if you like via power curves), they don't give you a specific training program accordingly. They expect a person with X FTP to be able to perform Y watts for 5 minutes based on fixed equation. While this may work for a portion of population, it doesn't work for others.

For example, I've ALWAYS known my strengths and weaknesses via TrainingPeaks since I have 3 years worth of power data from same powe meter. I took the Sufferfest test and just proved it again.

5 sec power : 950
1 minute : 430
5 minute : 320
20 minute : 260

This is what my profile looks like. Not at all like the usual formulas suggest. So Sufferfest is suggesting me to work on my 1 minute (SUPER weak compared to FTP [relevant ofcourse. not saying I have high FTP]) and 5 second power (pretty darn weak) and much less on my 5 minute (which is pretty high compared to FTP)

Anyway.. If you know what you're doing, you can train to your weaknesses but I like that sufferfest is designing it around them and taking the guesswork out.

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