Strava cheaters

A light bike doesn't replace good fitness.

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Dannnnn
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:00 pm

by Dannnnn

guyc wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:08 pm
I see people who seem to pump out 300w average on Zwift and who then manage 145w averages on actual road rides. Puzzling.
Thing is a lot of people who are on zwift don't have a PM for outdoors (I certainly don't)
So Strava does the whole "power estimation" thing.

Mine will be similar to what you see.
On the Neo on zwift I can ride at 240w for over an hour. Outdoors Strava would estimate my power at like 140w.

No cheating, just lack of equipment....

by Weenie


mcfarton
Posts: 83
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:15 pm

by mcfarton

As far as zwift vs outside. I can do xxx watts on zwift as I never stop pedaling for downhill, stop signs, or stop lights. But outside I only ever have 5/7 of the power I make inside. I am comparing a calibrated smart trainer vs a calibrated power meter. There is always a difference in power.

But you should be able to see similarities in heart rate and timed efforts.

People cheat inside, outside and all aspects of life. I try to not let it bother me and just be honest with myself. When I see that my power numbers are up it brings a smile to my face.


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TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4153
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Dannnnn wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:33 pm
guyc wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:08 pm
I see people who seem to pump out 300w average on Zwift and who then manage 145w averages on actual road rides. Puzzling.
Thing is a lot of people who are on zwift don't have a PM for outdoors (I certainly don't)
So Strava does the whole "power estimation" thing.

Mine will be similar to what you see.
On the Neo on zwift I can ride at 240w for over an hour. Outdoors Strava would estimate my power at like 140w.

No cheating, just lack of equipment....

It's more that the equipment available just isn't accurate enough. This includes all of the following:

1) Just about all ZPower estimates.
2) Just about all wheel-on smart-trainers. Think your $600 KICKR Snap is accurate? Nope. Even if you follow the directions properly before a spindown, almost all overshoot by 10-20%
3) Many direct-drive trainers have various quirks. Gen1 KICKRs typically overshoot by 10% or so. The Tacx Flux S can overshoot and undershoot depending on power ranges. My Hammer overshoots on fast accelerations, sprinter power can be 200W off...1200W appears as 1400W.

The only trainers I feel are rock solid in terms of accuracy day after day are the Tacx Neo, Elite Drivo and Elite Direto. And this is only after comparing against a known good power source first.

Anyone who owns both a smart trainer and a separate power meter...well they should record with the power meter at all times. Don't cheat yourself.

northwestern
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:13 pm
Location: Phoenix,AZ

by northwestern

I am only interested in doing a KOM on one segment. The current KOM is done by a guy who somehow accelerated from 21 mph to 38 mph in 2 seconds and kept it around 38 mph. This is at the end of a 4 hour ride. I flagged it, Strava people did not think it was weird.

AJS914
Posts: 3463
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

Post a link.

The acceleration doesn't sound suspect to me. Is GPS data even second to second accurate?

I like to look at the person's profile and see how much they ride, what other KOMs they have, etc.

Is it a place that gets windy days? Are most KOMs set on super windy days? Or maybe he got the KOM in a group of 20 other riders.

ParisCarbon
Posts: 1402
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Winnipeg Canada

by ParisCarbon

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:19 am
Dannnnn wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:33 pm
guyc wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:08 pm
I see people who seem to pump out 300w average on Zwift and who then manage 145w averages on actual road rides. Puzzling.
Thing is a lot of people who are on zwift don't have a PM for outdoors (I certainly don't)
So Strava does the whole "power estimation" thing.

Mine will be similar to what you see.
On the Neo on zwift I can ride at 240w for over an hour. Outdoors Strava would estimate my power at like 140w.

No cheating, just lack of equipment....

It's more that the equipment available just isn't accurate enough. This includes all of the following:

1) Just about all ZPower estimates.
2) Just about all wheel-on smart-trainers. Think your $600 KICKR Snap is accurate? Nope. Even if you follow the directions properly before a spindown, almost all overshoot by 10-20%
3) Many direct-drive trainers have various quirks. Gen1 KICKRs typically overshoot by 10% or so. The Tacx Flux S can overshoot and undershoot depending on power ranges. My Hammer overshoots on fast accelerations, sprinter power can be 200W off...1200W appears as 1400W.

The only trainers I feel are rock solid in terms of accuracy day after day are the Tacx Neo, Elite Drivo and Elite Direto. And this is only after comparing against a known good power source first.

Anyone who owns both a smart trainer and a separate power meter...well they should record with the power meter at all times. Don't cheat yourself.
What Tobin said is totally accurate... I pumped out 40 watts more on a Kickr over 7 minutes at a shop event compared to my Neo.. In a Zwift race that would push me from a lead pack B racer right into a upper pack A racer.. Let the cheaters cheat, its an online race that means nothing really.. as much as Im not a rainmaker fan, even he has an article on zwift and trainers and talks exactly about this difference in trainers... What I walk away with from training on my Neo is that my inside watts are the same as my outdoor watts and I don't have to change a thing!

ParisCarbon
Posts: 1402
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Winnipeg Canada

by ParisCarbon

northwestern wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:56 pm
I am only interested in doing a KOM on one segment. The current KOM is done by a guy who somehow accelerated from 21 mph to 38 mph in 2 seconds and kept it around 38 mph. This is at the end of a 4 hour ride. I flagged it, Strava people did not think it was weird.
A 30kmh jump in 2 seconds is pretty strange IMHO ..sounds like GPS data error to me... How long is this segment.. 38mph is 60kmh, to hold onto that for any duration without a tailwind or downhill is impressive.. is there wattage associated?

Post the segment if you can..

northwestern
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:13 pm
Location: Phoenix,AZ

by northwestern

https://www.strava.com/segments/1321978 ... g5MDk0OTg=

second 1-6 8 mph then goes to 38 mph in 1 second.

AJS914
Posts: 3463
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

Maybe the sampling on his device wasn't that great?

Just flag it. If he went from 8 to 38 in 1 second they will probably remove his KOM.

TheRich
Posts: 407
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:36 am

by TheRich

AJS914 wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:04 am
Maybe the sampling on his device wasn't that great?

Just flag it. If he went from 8 to 38 in 1 second they will probably remove his KOM.
The short segment length magnifies any and all problems. When it comes down to it, we're all using consumer electronics that have a relatively big margin of error.

I try to ignore anythng less than a few minutes long, especially on the road. Strava sniping short segments isn't very indicative of anything other than the desire to Strava snipe.

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LouisN
Posts: 2730
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:44 am
Location: Canada

by LouisN

northwestern wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:59 am
https://www.strava.com/segments/1321978 ... g5MDk0OTg=

second 1-6 8 mph then goes to 38 mph in 1 second.
I know a few cycling buddies that like to chase trucks and buses :lol:

Louis :)

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Leviathan
Posts: 1216
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:49 am
Location: Mallorca, Spain
Contact:

by Leviathan

At the risk of being preachy MadCows old adage "this place would be much better if people took themselves a little less seriously" seems to apply 10x for both Strava and Zwift.

Maybe cos Im a below average cyclist and the top 10 KOM times on my local ride are held by current pros?? Simon Yates is 18th on one, and Kwiatkowski 19th on the other...

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Tinea Pedis
Posts: 8557
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:08 am
Location: Geelong
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by Tinea Pedis

Leviathan wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:34 am
At the risk of being preachy MadCows old adage "this place would be much better if people took themselves a little less seriously" seems to apply 10x for both Strava and Zwift.
Good attitude to have, except that is not what either platform is built around...

TheRich
Posts: 407
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:36 am

by TheRich

Tinea Pedis wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 3:30 am
Good attitude to have, except that is not what either platform is built around...
The privacy settings can drastically change the Strava experience, people don't make those changes because they don't want those changes.

Rudi
Posts: 211
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:43 pm

by Rudi

northwestern wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:59 am
https://www.strava.com/segments/1321978 ... g5MDk0OTg=

second 1-6 8 mph then goes to 38 mph in 1 second.
On my screen it's showing 38km/h, not miles.

Looks like he came round the corner and booted it. Maybe it's a segment he had been close on previously and he decided to go for it. His power is estimated, not actual. Not sure i'm seeing anything that odd (on the assumption that it is km/h and not mph, which would be odd I agree).
Cervelo R3 - 5.4kg viewtopic.php?f=10&t=142420

by Weenie


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