Nose Breathing

A light bike doesn't replace good fitness.

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hartox
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by hartox

SystmSix wrote:
Thu Mar 17, 2022 2:24 am
This may be covered somewhere else but I couldnt find it.... How does one train oneself to strickly breath through the nose and exhale through your mouth without slipping up and breathing in through your mouth. I have been trying to perfect this for the past month but always feel like Im not getting enough air through the nose to exert the strength needed for the mileage I'd like to go at a said pace....
I would start by exhaling through the nose so you can keep your mount shut. No downsides by exhaling through the nose..

mrlobber
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by mrlobber

usr wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:23 am
Why should you ride that slow?
Well, if you aren't able to nose breath below/at LT1, where the absolute majority of training (the famous 80%) should happen (how "slow" it is, depends on each athlete), then IMO there's something wrong. Myself, with some concentration, last winter I was able to do some 20+ minute efforts close to LT2 watts with mouth closed for the entire interval - not that I say here that this should be practiced for whatever specific reason, just to illustrate that it is entirely possible even for not-so-aerobically advanced amateurs like me, even if I'm like a "100% diesel" from cycling power profile perspective.
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Andrew69
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by Andrew69

usr wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:23 am
Andrew69 wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:43 am
If you cant breathe pretty much exclusively through your nose, its probably an indication that you're riding harder than you should.
Why should you ride that slow? Yes, it's a technique that has been around forever because people did not have a PM or HR monitor, but not so much for teasing out some extra training training effectivity, but for achieving longer distances. It's a pacing technique, and likely one that leads to objectively worse outcomes than what you would get if you hit the same pace using other methods.
What makes you think that simply because someone is breathing through their nose that they are riding slowly?
Im betting that Tadej or Remco could pretty easily drop almost everyone on the forum and never have to open their mouths to breathe

And the pace you hit isnt dependant on what training tool you choose to employ because they are all just that...tools.
Using a PM doesnt lead to better outcomes simply because youre using a PM
Regardless if you choose to use a PM or HR monitor or lactate testing...or simply breathing through your nose, they will all lead you to training at a very similar pace and the adaptations will be so close that is doesnt matter...unless you are Tadej or Remco

Edit: And just to be clear, Im not saying we should aim to train at all times just breathing through our noses and that just breathing through our noses leads to some kind of magical benefit. What Im saying is that it is a good indicator that you are training in the right zone when were talking about a polarized training model and wanting to keep your easy rides easy

usr
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by usr

mrlobber wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:34 am
Well, if you aren't able to nose breath below/at LT1, where the absolute majority of training (the famous 80%) should happen
That's a “should" that's famously 20th century in my opinion. Do Tadej or Remco (to pick up a phrase from the next post) spend 80% of their training at or below their hypothetical (and undoubtedly quite high!) nose breathing speed?

Those 80% are certainly much less outdated for those who truly max out their recovery budget than for the rest of us, but I believe that we they put far more focus on quality than on quantity than they used to, in the days of simple rules like 80%.

Andrew69
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by Andrew69

usr wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:45 pm
mrlobber wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:34 am
Well, if you aren't able to nose breath below/at LT1, where the absolute majority of training (the famous 80%) should happen
That's a “should" that's famously 20th century in my opinion. Do Tadej or Remco (to pick up a phrase from the next post) spend 80% of their training at or below their hypothetical (and undoubtedly quite high!) nose breathing speed?

Those 80% are certainly much less outdated for those who truly max out their recovery budget than for the rest of us, but I believe that we they put far more focus on quality than on quantity than they used to, in the days of simple rules like 80%.
Tadej certainly does during the off season.
But dont take my work for it, listen directly to the guy that trains him

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6PDBVRkCKc&t=7804s

If youve got the time, Id suggest watching the whole thing, but about Tadej's training specifically, skip to 30 minutes in

Andrew69
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by Andrew69

Obviously there is more than one way to get "fast"...whatever that means for each individual

Pro's have lots of time to ride so a polarised training model makes sense for them

Someone that has a job and limited hours to trains (say less than 6-8 per week), probably isnt going to get as "fast" as they could using a polarised training model compared to say something like doing sweetspot and VO2 max intervals

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

Polarized works particularly well for those short on time. The whole point is to make the hard workouts so hard that you can't possibly do 6-8 hours worth of workouts in a week and that you must go easy for a day or two or you won't hit your targets on your next hard workout. The volume of easy increases disproportionately to the volume of very hard.

RyanH
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by RyanH

TobinHatesYou wrote:Polarized works particularly well for those short on time. The whole point is to make the hard workouts so hard that you can't possibly do 6-8 hours worth of workouts in a week and that you must go easy for a day or two or you won't hit your targets on your next hard workout. The volume of easy increases disproportionately to the volume of very hard.
You have it backwards, polarized only makes sense if you have a lot of time. If you do 3 hours at Z5 or higher then you need to do 12 hours at Z1/Z2 under polarized. Sweetspot is probably most bang for the buck time wise.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

RyanH wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:30 pm
You have it backwards, polarized only makes sense if you have a lot of time. If you do 3 hours at Z5 or higher then you need to do 12 hours at Z1/Z2 under polarized. Sweetspot is probably most bang for the buck time wise.

In my head, the Z1/Z2 part of a polarized training method is flexible. You don't have to do it. It's not about how much time you spend in Z1/Z2, but how little time you spend at tempo to slightly above threshold. If you're going to do aerobic work, it should be just shy of MAP minus the oddball 105% effort for neuro/motor benefit. You shouldn't be able to repeat the workout the next day.

Sure sweetspot is easy for early couch-to-fitness gains, but it becomes less productive the fitter you get.

Or just ride your bike in a way that is both hard and fun and ignore the specifics.

maxim809
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by maxim809

When you ignore Z1/Z2 and focus on Z5 and over, this is called High Intensity Interval Training or HIITs.

Polarized is just an intensity distribution method. By definition, it requires Z1-Z2. Without substantial time in base, you are doing HIITs.

Finally, SweetSpot is not a distribution method but just a target power within FTP. Tho normally, when people say SweetSpot, most experienced cyclists colloquially understand this to mean, "go ride your bike at a hard, fast, super fun pace as much as possible". As a consequence, some people who claim their hard outdoor workouts are "SweetSpot" are often just confusing it for Tempo. Cuz buzzwords are cool.

Time to ride your bike.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

maxim809 wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 4:07 am
When you ignore Z1/Z2 and focus on Z5 and over, this is called High Intensity Interval Training or HIITs.
Didn't say ignore. I said you flex your Z1/Z2 based on what you can fit into your busy life. And you focus less on the quantity of the high-intensity intervals, but the quality of them.

mrlobber
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by mrlobber

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:44 pm
It's not about how much time you spend in Z1/Z2, but how little time you spend at tempo to slightly above threshold. If you're going to do aerobic work, it should be just shy of MAP minus the oddball 105% effort for neuro/motor benefit. You shouldn't be able to repeat the workout the next day.
With MAP here you meant power at VO2 max, right?
Bikes I know something of:
Vial Evo Ultra | SS Evo 1 & 2 | R5D | S5 | S5D | P5 | O2 V.A.M D | AR FRD | Addict SL | Plasma 3 | SL6 | Orca | Orca OMX D | Boone D | 596

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