Indoor handle position vs outdoor

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rukomasa
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:18 am

by rukomasa

Hi Experts,
Currently i have only one road bike (supersix Evo 2013, yes very old) and riding it indoor / outdoor both.
Things recently i found, is that i am not really comfortable if the bike is level, feel more comfort if i have 1-2inch higher under the riser block. Funny things is that I never feel make more upright when i ride outdoor.
Is it because i have weak core body? or any other different reasons? anybody feel like same?
I have feel like even saddle might be slightly downwards at indoor session at level, but actually it is not.

I am going to have a paid bike fit, but with this feeling, is it really worth to do it? any inputs i will welcome.
thanks.

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JMeinholdt
Posts: 708
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:31 pm
Location: Topeka, KS

by JMeinholdt

I'm not sure of any reasoning behind it, but I find myself always wanting to be upright on the hoods when I'm indoors, whereas outdoors I spend a lot more time in the drops. And I also typically like to have a slight rise indoors.
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sevencyclist
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:36 am

by sevencyclist

JMeinholdt wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:55 pm
I'm not sure of any reasoning behind it, but I find myself always wanting to be upright on the hoods when I'm indoors, whereas outdoors I spend a lot more time in the drops. And I also typically like to have a slight rise indoors.
I found less benefit of being aero for indoor trainer riding. :D

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MikeMoore
Posts: 95
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by MikeMoore

When you're outside the air resistance pushes you back slightly. As this resistance is missing inside, tilting the front wheel up has a similar effect.
Weight 74.4kg, FTP 303W => 4.04 W/kg

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sevencyclist
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:36 am

by sevencyclist

rukomasa wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:19 am
Hi Experts,
Currently i have only one road bike (supersix Evo 2013, yes very old) and riding it indoor / outdoor both.
Things recently i found, is that i am not really comfortable if the bike is level, feel more comfort if i have 1-2inch higher under the riser block. Funny things is that I never feel make more upright when i ride outdoor.
Is it because i have weak core body? or any other different reasons? anybody feel like same?
I have feel like even saddle might be slightly downwards at indoor session at level, but actually it is not.

I am going to have a paid bike fit, but with this feeling, is it really worth to do it? any inputs i will welcome.
thanks.
For outdoor riding, the rise and fall is usually not static near where I live, but having a little more weight in the front (as in drop bar) does help with sense of being in control of the bike steering/direction. For indoor trainer riding, steering/direction does not matter, so no benefit of having weight at the front/lower. For rollers, I do feel some gain in balance for the drops, but I have to be careful not to have the back slip when stand up to pedal.

JMeinholdt
Posts: 708
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:31 pm
Location: Topeka, KS

by JMeinholdt

sevencyclist wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:10 pm
JMeinholdt wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:55 pm
I'm not sure of any reasoning behind it, but I find myself always wanting to be upright on the hoods when I'm indoors, whereas outdoors I spend a lot more time in the drops. And I also typically like to have a slight rise indoors.
I found less benefit of being aero for indoor trainer riding. :D
Well, true. However, it seems like I get extremely uncomfortable on the drops in a matter of seconds indoors, whereas outdoors I do my 5 minute all out efforts almost entirely in the drops.
Wilier Cento10AIR Rim Brake - SRAM Force AXS
3T Exploro 105 - Gravel/Commuter/Trainer

Strava link: https://www.strava.com/athletes/jmeinholdt
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takolino
Posts: 307
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:11 am
Location: USA, SF Bay Area

by takolino

JMeinholdt wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:55 pm
I'm not sure of any reasoning behind it, but I find myself always wanting to be upright on the hoods when I'm indoors, whereas outdoors I spend a lot more time in the drops. And I also typically like to have a slight rise indoors.
I think there's something to this. I just started using rollers and I noticed a difference in how comfortable it is in the drops vs on the trainer. It seems like the movement in the steering and the bike not being fixed gives the arms a bit more comfort somehow, much like riding outdoors. I separated my shoulder last fall and I've been on the trainer since December riding close to upright to let my shoulder heal. I've progressively moved my cockpit closer to my usual position but it's taking a long time and I get uncomfortable pretty quickly. I decided to try rollers to ease into riding outdoors and it's actually more comfortable. The bike I'm using for the roller has lower bars and it's still more comfortable than the trainer and I can stay in the lower position longer. Could it be that actively steering the bike has something to do with it?

rukomasa
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:18 am

by rukomasa

I'm so surprised in finidng a lot of same ideas i had because i couldnt find such opinions in google search or friends close to me.
Fitter gives me very precious control like 1mm seat hight plus and minus back and forth, and after he was satisfied, his method is add 1.5mm higher. He said it is his trick to make indoor fitting more better for outdoor.
The against wind story above, makes a bit sense to me, because of the against wind when we go forward, probably helps me hold our upper body and makes me feel easier to keep low down. It does not happens at indoor, so i might prefer a bit upright position.
But then, why others didnt do so? just more pain torelance?

usr
Posts: 460
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:58 pm

by usr

Don't forget that on rollers, the front is *always* lifted considerably higher than the back, because the front wheel sits on top of the front roller, whereas the rear one drops slightly between its pair of rollers. I have yet to see an example of rollers that includes the trivial fix of mounting the rear higher.

I really like the explanation MikeMoore is suggesting ("think of all the lift your torso is generating at 45kph!"), but my guess would be that the bigger factor, by far, is how indoors we just don't need to deal with the infinite supply of "surface events" in that spectrum from gentle road buzz to large potholes that keeps our bodies from ever resting in one position too long. I use this primarily for explaining the wild difference in "saddle endurance" and will gladly amend it with "lift@45!" there as well

takolino
Posts: 307
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:11 am
Location: USA, SF Bay Area

by takolino

Not sure there’s any significant lift on my torso to make a difference at something closer to my typical 30kmh but I definitely spend more time in the drops outdoors. Since I’m recovering from shoulder surgery, I’m quite a bit more sensitive to position and the stationary is definitely less comfortable even with more stack, including the slight rear drop on the rollers.

By the way, just saw gplama’s review on the crown rollers. There are several interesting features and the raised rear rollers to level the bike is one of them.


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BdaGhisallo
Posts: 2768
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:38 pm

by BdaGhisallo

takolino wrote:
Sun Jan 30, 2022 10:18 pm
Not sure there’s any significant lift on my torso to make a difference at something closer to my typical 30kmh but I definitely spend more time in the drops outdoors. Since I’m recovering from shoulder surgery, I’m quite a bit more sensitive to position and the stationary is definitely less comfortable even with more stack, including the slight rear drop on the rollers.

By the way, just saw gplama’s review on the crown rollers. There are several interesting features and the raised rear rollers to level the bike is one of them.


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Tru trainer rollers also address the front to rear roller height.

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TobinHatesYou
Posts: 9430
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Slightly off topic, but I have a completely separate indoor bike and I have it set up with a much more relaxed bar x/y. Indoors I'm looking to hit power targets independent of position. Whatever allows me to generate more power in Zwift races. I also sprint on the hoods because it puts more of my center-of-mass over the bottom bracket and that's where I want all gravity assisted power to go.

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