Plant-based diet for cycling - tips and tricks?

A light bike doesn't replace good fitness.

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AeroObsessive
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by AeroObsessive

Conza wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:09 pm
LCHF. Carnivore here (for all the reasons vegan claim to be vegan).

Tips? Possibly better than SAD ('standard American diet') you were likely on before... doesn't mean it's optimal though.

Tricks: "very unhealthy cholesterol levels"

On what type of diet? https://carnivoremd.com/dave-feldman-th ... olesterol/
Nothing wrong with LCHF if that floats your boat. Can be a perfectly healthy way to eat (though potentially not optimal for endurance athletes).

But Saladino et al are peddlers of some of the worst pseudoscience around. Chery picked, misconstrued, misrepresented, misunderstood tripe. Avoid at all costs.

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Lewn777
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by Lewn777

AeroObsessive wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 1:13 am
Lewn777 wrote:
Sat Oct 16, 2021 10:43 am
There is almost no such thing as protein deficiency unless you are on a starvation diet. Most people in fact eat far too much protein and some amino acids have been linked to health problems. So the classic 'where do you get your protein?' argument is in fact dead in the water.
Citation please.
https://www.valterlongo.com/daily-longe ... or-adults/
There are papers too, but this gives a layman's guide.

AeroObsessive
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by AeroObsessive

Lewn777 wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 5:17 pm
AeroObsessive wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 1:13 am
Lewn777 wrote:
Sat Oct 16, 2021 10:43 am
There is almost no such thing as protein deficiency unless you are on a starvation diet. Most people in fact eat far too much protein and some amino acids have been linked to health problems. So the classic 'where do you get your protein?' argument is in fact dead in the water.
Citation please.
https://www.valterlongo.com/daily-longe ... or-adults/
There are papers too, but this gives a layman's guide.
I see lots of marketing, very little science.

For athletes, especially those that get older, the general recommendation is between 1.2-2g per kilo of bodyweight. If you want, I can go into many *human* studies that show why this range is recommended.

As for the issue of "longevity" this is a Twitter thread with lots of studies and analysis listed by people who know a lot more than me:-
https://twitter.com/healthmisinfo/statu ... 84704?s=20

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Lewn777
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by Lewn777

Sorry professor AeroObsessive. I read the book Professor Longo wrote and he singles out Protein and particularly Leucine as being bad for health and longevity. Please send him your detailed rebuttal, I'm sure he'll be keen to hear your non-academic musings.

AeroObsessive
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by AeroObsessive

Lewn777 wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:09 pm
Sorry professor AeroObsessive. I read the book Professor Longo wrote and he singles out Protein and particularly Leucine as being bad for health and longevity. Please send him your detailed rebuttal, I'm sure he'll be keen to hear your non-academic musings.
Oh, you read a book? Well, that's a little bit different to the "papers" mentioned above. I don't have to prove anything, you made the claim, time to back it up, not appeal to authority.

I'll just go ahead and post the overwhelming data that supports increased protein intake for athletes. Not that I'll think you'll read them, because, hey you read some quack's book.


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Lewn777
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by Lewn777

AeroObsessive wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:49 pm
Lewn777 wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:09 pm
Sorry professor AeroObsessive. I read the book Professor Longo wrote and he singles out Protein and particularly Leucine as being bad for health and longevity. Please send him your detailed rebuttal, I'm sure he'll be keen to hear your non-academic musings.
Oh, you read a book? Well, that's a little bit different to the "papers" mentioned above. I don't have to prove anything, you made the claim, time to back it up, not appeal to authority.

I'll just go ahead and post the overwhelming data that supports increased protein intake for athletes. Not that I'll think you'll read them, because, hey you read some quack's book.
All your papers and journals say is that protein is good post-exercise for repairing tissues. I said that protein is unhealthy when over-consumed in a normal diet.

Both are correct statements. There is no argument here.

If I had said 'protein is useless post exercise' or you had said 'protein is useful pre exercise' then there would actually be something to argue about.

AeroObsessive
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by AeroObsessive

Lewn777 wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:45 am
AeroObsessive wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:49 pm
Lewn777 wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:09 pm
Sorry professor AeroObsessive. I read the book Professor Longo wrote and he singles out Protein and particularly Leucine as being bad for health and longevity. Please send him your detailed rebuttal, I'm sure he'll be keen to hear your non-academic musings.
Oh, you read a book? Well, that's a little bit different to the "papers" mentioned above. I don't have to prove anything, you made the claim, time to back it up, not appeal to authority.

I'll just go ahead and post the overwhelming data that supports increased protein intake for athletes. Not that I'll think you'll read them, because, hey you read some quack's book.
All your papers and journals say is that protein is good post-exercise for repairing tissues. I said that protein is unhealthy when over-consumed in a normal diet.

Both are correct statements. There is no argument here.

If I had said 'protein is useless post exercise' or you had said 'protein is useful pre exercise' then there would actually be something to argue about.
And within those studies were quantities of protein used for those effects. Which are above standard dietary recommendations.

To quote you: "Most people in fact eat far too much protein and some amino acids have been linked to health problems."

No evidence provided for this claim. A book referenced with no citations.

So, who is eating too much protein, what are the amino acids that have been linked to health problems, and what are the associated values with those? Because the data shows that for endurance athletes, between 1.2-1.6gram per kilo of body weight seems to be optimal, and that up to 2.5kgs of protein per kilo of bodyweight is fine.

The Twitter link I provided above does a good breakdown in regards to the claims that a few quacks are making regards to longevity etc. There is a LOT of inference they are drawing from basic rat studies. If someone is selling a book to promote a very particular mode of eating, there's a good chance they're a quack.

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Lewn777
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by Lewn777

AeroObsessive wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 2:51 am
Lewn777 wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:45 am
AeroObsessive wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:49 pm
Lewn777 wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:09 pm
Sorry professor AeroObsessive. I read the book Professor Longo wrote and he singles out Protein and particularly Leucine as being bad for health and longevity. Please send him your detailed rebuttal, I'm sure he'll be keen to hear your non-academic musings.
Oh, you read a book? Well, that's a little bit different to the "papers" mentioned above. I don't have to prove anything, you made the claim, time to back it up, not appeal to authority.

I'll just go ahead and post the overwhelming data that supports increased protein intake for athletes. Not that I'll think you'll read them, because, hey you read some quack's book.
All your papers and journals say is that protein is good post-exercise for repairing tissues. I said that protein is unhealthy when over-consumed in a normal diet.

Both are correct statements. There is no argument here.

If I had said 'protein is useless post exercise' or you had said 'protein is useful pre exercise' then there would actually be something to argue about.
And within those studies were quantities of protein used for those effects. Which are above standard dietary recommendations.

To quote you: "Most people in fact eat far too much protein and some amino acids have been linked to health problems."

No evidence provided for this claim. A book referenced with no citations.

So, who is eating too much protein, what are the amino acids that have been linked to health problems, and what are the associated values with those? Because the data shows that for endurance athletes, between 1.2-1.6gram per kilo of body weight seems to be optimal, and that up to 2.5kgs of protein per kilo of bodyweight is fine.

The Twitter link I provided above does a good breakdown in regards to the claims that a few quacks are making regards to longevity etc. There is a LOT of inference they are drawing from basic rat studies. If someone is selling a book to promote a very particular mode of eating, there's a good chance they're a quack.
You seem obsessed with 'protein good'. You seem unwilling to grasp the nuances of when or who consumes protein or in what forms. Dr Valter Longo is not a quack he is a Professor at the University of California, has written a best-seller in multiple languages and has been hotly tipped for the Nobel Prize. Yes, I take some of his claims with a huge pinch of salt and find his website too commercial and dumbed-down for my taste. In all honesty unless you are a researcher in this field you don't really have a leg to stand on when you are criticizing him.

Post exercise/workout protein is useful, there is total agreement on that, whereas the quantities have yet to be agreed.
Last edited by Lewn777 on Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Lewn777
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by Lewn777

double post pls delete

AeroObsessive
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by AeroObsessive

I don't have to a "have a leg to stand on". I am not a researcher, and I am not making the claims. Those that have done the research, have, and I that's what I reference. You made claims (demonstrably incorrect ones), with no reference.

Now, it could be the good professor is proven right in the next couple of decades, and I'll change my stance if that's the case. But right now, it's unsubstantiated and your statement is at least misleading, and unhelpful.

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Lewn777
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by Lewn777

AeroObsessive wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:31 pm
I don't have to a "have a leg to stand on". I am not a researcher, and I am not making the claims. Those that have done the research, have, and I that's what I reference. You made claims (demonstrably incorrect ones), with no reference.

Now, it could be the good professor is proven right in the next couple of decades, and I'll change my stance if that's the case. But right now, it's unsubstantiated and your statement is at least misleading, and unhelpful.
I said people generally eat too much protein and that is bad for people's health. You then went nutty with attacks because you got it in your head that 'protein good'. The fact is protein is provably good post exercise and post work-out and for child growth etc but highly questionable for adults under 65 in the amounts normally consumed in western countries.

Professor Longo has studies proving protein and specifically leucine is harmful. I can't be bothered to dig out due to very little free time.

AeroObsessive
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by AeroObsessive

Lewn777 wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:57 pm
I said people generally eat too much protein and that is bad for people's health. You then went nutty with attacks because you got it in your head that 'protein good'. The fact is protein is provably good post exercise and post work-out and for child growth etc but highly questionable for adults under 65 in the amounts normally consumed in western countries.

Professor Longo has studies proving protein and specifically leucine is harmful. I can't be bothered to dig out due to very little free time.
Unsubstantiated shite. Protein *is* good for us. If you say X is bad for us, without quantifying the dose, then this is quackery and scaremongering.

Leucine is also an important amino acid (essential) to help promote muscle growth, it is only in large quantities that is *theorised* that it *may* have *some* negative effects in general population. There are some with certain pathologies that need to *limit* intake.

The quantities needed to be a risk in humans is under debate, but currently it would require a very very extreme diet or supplementation to achieve this, it is effectively a non-issue.

Leucine in diet is *essential* we cannot synthesise it, and very low level has been shown to have some negative effects (esp. for athletes).

There is enough bullshit around diet from "experts" keen to sell a book, or a plan, or supplement, we don't need more grossly inaccurate hot takes like this.


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AeroObsessive
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by AeroObsessive

Urg. Yeah, Greger, a vegan doctor is espousing a vegan diet. And again, like most of the others, bases most of this on rodent (or other non-human) studies. Has a belief system, find data to support it, not the other way around. Have a read of the studies he actually references. There are theories, but no real conclusions.

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