road vs dirt

A light bike doesn't replace good fitness.

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PoorCyclist
Posts: 482
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:26 am
Location: California's country side

by PoorCyclist

I have been stuck at the same weight since starting new biking routine. Want to loose 2-3 kg more. (lost previous 10kg by just jogging for 2 months)

Now I stopped jogging but I ride 9-12 miles on fireroads it's about 2 hours almost daily, usually 1800-2200ft ascent. I went out for many of these trips but only accumulated 200 miles. Carrying water and tools in a backpack about 4-5kg. It's mashing because of the 10-15% dirt. 40T to 42 cog (I feel as if it is like unicycle up dirt) If it's is steeper I have to hike. But nothing is ever flat for more than 0.5 miles. Then it descents, maybe it is like interval training I don't have a setback setpost I feel it is intense work on the thighs, lots of sweat. I did this for weeks and the weight stayed the same.

I am thinking perhaps if I switch to ride a road bike for around 26 miles / 40km in those 2 hours, I could maybe make MORE progress. I don't really stop when I'm on a road bike except descents. Feels like I'm flying up hill on road without a heavy backpack or big draggy tires. The exhaustion feeling is different after a road ride.

I eat sensibly but not low carb or anything. I definitely eat carbs. Wife said my face look different, pants are loose but the scale is telling me everything is same.

So just want to ask what's more productive for "burning" calories?

by Weenie


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AeroObsessive
Posts: 160
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:42 am

by AeroObsessive

Weight loss is energy in vs energy out. That's the simple premise which is infinitely more complex in the details. However in this modern age, we have tools which can help. A power meter, for example, helps quantify how much work is done on the bike. Various nutrition tracking apps can help quantify how much energy is going in.

Though there comes questions.
What is the drive behind wanting to lose weight?
Is it weight loss, or body composition that's the goal?
What's your training history been like previously etcetc?

PoorCyclist
Posts: 482
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:26 am
Location: California's country side

by PoorCyclist

I wanted to lose a couple more KGs to properly fit more of my jerseys and climb faster. This would also open up the number of bikes I could use (spoke count etc).
I experienced some health issues caused by the extra weight and need to lose for health reasons.

I don't have a particular body composition in mind. I think if I keep riding I will go back into the body shape I was happy with. I did notice I got a lot more core workout riding off road due to carrying a backpack and need to work the arms much more to pull the handlebars up. Maybe gained some muscles here and there on my upper body and quads.

My previous training is 26-40 road miles occasional 60-100 miles excursions, climbing 3-6k of elevation, but is impractical to be out for that long right now.

bikeboy1tr
Posts: 934
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:19 am
Location: Southern Ontario Canada

by bikeboy1tr

Weight loss and training is something that evolves as you get more involved with it. We learn more about how our bodies burn fat through training and the different types of training. Everyone responds to food differently and that is something we learn about ourselves. I know that drinking plenty of clear fluids or less sugary fluids helps big time with weight loss and it keeps you hydrated for those hot days. I drink all the time and it keeps me from snacking as much. For me alcohol,pasta,cheese and sugary drinks are best avoided when I am looking to drop a few pounds.
I found the foods that work best for me to stay lean are stir frys, salads and lean meats-NY steaks, salmon,Bassa,Orange Ruffy, and Trout fish. So essentially lots of vegies and lean meats but as soon as I consume pasta and most breads then I start gaining unless I am riding consecutive days over 100km. Everyone has food that works for them and that is something we have to figure out for ourselves. We shouldnt call eating smart a diet because many ppl stop eating smart after they have lost the weight and then they just gain it back. It should be thought of as a lifestyle change and we need to find food that is good for us and something we like to eat and that way we will stick to eating clean and it wont feel like a job to lose weight.
Just remember that muscle is heavier than fat and if your looking to gain muscle for the upper body, then cycling itself is not going to help much their.
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AeroObsessive
Posts: 160
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:42 am

by AeroObsessive

PoorCyclist wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:07 pm
I wanted to lose a couple more KGs to properly fit more of my jerseys and climb faster. This would also open up the number of bikes I could use (spoke count etc).
I experienced some health issues caused by the extra weight and need to lose for health reasons.

I don't have a particular body composition in mind. I think if I keep riding I will go back into the body shape I was happy with. I did notice I got a lot more core workout riding off road due to carrying a backpack and need to work the arms much more to pull the handlebars up. Maybe gained some muscles here and there on my upper body and quads.

My previous training is 26-40 road miles occasional 60-100 miles excursions, climbing 3-6k of elevation, but is impractical to be out for that long right now.
Ok, so with those parameters, I would have some general advice:-
1) Adding load in the form of a backpack or whatever on the bike is ill-advised. Whilst is sounds logical, more weight=more energy burn, it's a case that these sort of things inevitably put more strain (lower back, wrists etc) where we don't want it, and can lead to injury. Ditch the weight, enjoy the riding.

2) To improve core strength and some upper body strength do some specific off bike work to target these and actually get the adaptations you need.

3) Just Riding Along is fun, but not as conducive to improvement as implementing some vague structure. It doesn't have to be complex, just simple as Day 1: long easy ride, Day 2: long easy ride, Day 3: short ride, push hard on the hills, coast on the other side, Day 4: easy spin, Day 5: threshold - pick a 10-40mins loop and thrash it, Day 6: off bike work, Day 7: rest day. There are almost an infinite number of ways to skin this cat.

4) Diet is more tricky. Consistency is important, as is enjoying your food. This is where actual experts in the field are a boon. Dieticians do this for a living, might be worth seeking their knowledge.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 8814
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Try this one weird trick. Prepare the same meals, but make the portions 2/3rd the usual size. Magic.

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Lewn777
Posts: 1213
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

It's mostly about calorie intake. However high intensity Fondos/sportives can burn thousands of calories, then you can then eat what you like, but only on that day, and damn it feels good. Unfortunately those Fondos can hinder weight loss longer term because they encourage overeating day to day as high intake and high burn is a natural way to live, that's why most people get so huge with sedentary lifestyles.

Sadly the best way to lose weight quickly just to dump that annoying 3-5kg is doing short-period (3-5 days) fast mimicking or calorie restriction type diets with light exercise, because they allow your body to get used to eating much less and help you theoretically burn through unnecessary cells (autophagy). Fasting is mostly self torture but is highly effective. Of course long term calorie restriction and counting calories to about 2000 with additional for exercise is also highly effective, but is just so damn depressing as no end is in sight, unless you have time to exercise every day when it becomes tolerable.

Just my opinion based on experience with some evidence from not 100% proven studies.

AeroObsessive
Posts: 160
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:42 am

by AeroObsessive

^ and this is great example of why professional help is recommended, and not taking advice from the internet.

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Lewn777
Posts: 1213
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

AeroObsessive wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:43 am
PoorCyclist wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:07 pm
I wanted to lose a couple more KGs to properly fit more of my jerseys and climb faster. This would also open up the number of bikes I could use (spoke count etc).
I experienced some health issues caused by the extra weight and need to lose for health reasons.

I don't have a particular body composition in mind. I think if I keep riding I will go back into the body shape I was happy with. I did notice I got a lot more core workout riding off road due to carrying a backpack and need to work the arms much more to pull the handlebars up. Maybe gained some muscles here and there on my upper body and quads.

My previous training is 26-40 road miles occasional 60-100 miles excursions, climbing 3-6k of elevation, but is impractical to be out for that long right now.
Ok, so with those parameters, I would have some general advice:-
1) Adding load in the form of a backpack or whatever on the bike is ill-advised. Whilst is sounds logical, more weight=more energy burn, it's a case that these sort of things inevitably put more strain (lower back, wrists etc) where we don't want it, and can lead to injury. Ditch the weight, enjoy the riding.

2) To improve core strength and some upper body strength do some specific off bike work to target these and actually get the adaptations you need.

3) Just Riding Along is fun, but not as conducive to improvement as implementing some vague structure. It doesn't have to be complex, just simple as Day 1: long easy ride, Day 2: long easy ride, Day 3: short ride, push hard on the hills, coast on the other side, Day 4: easy spin, Day 5: threshold - pick a 10-40mins loop and thrash it, Day 6: off bike work, Day 7: rest day. There are almost an infinite number of ways to skin this cat.

4) Diet is more tricky. Consistency is important, as is enjoying your food. This is where actual experts in the field are a boon. Dieticians do this for a living, might be worth seeking their knowledge.
^^^^^^
And this is another example of asking a professional instead of listening to a random dude on the internet that doesn't even understand the nuances of protein intake, The Dunning-Kruger effect in action.

AeroObsessive
Posts: 160
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:42 am

by AeroObsessive

Oh, the irony of you referencing D-K effect 😂

In relation to cycling training, that *is* my wheelhouse. And hence the advice above I am comfortable with, and as always, it depends.

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Lewn777
Posts: 1213
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

AeroObsessive wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:35 pm
Oh, the irony of you referencing D-K effect 😂

In relation to cycling training, that *is* my wheelhouse. And hence the advice above I am comfortable with, and as always, it depends.
Training is your wheelhouse? I fear for your clients.
People with professorships and doctorates from reputable Universities are quacks, but your cherry picked and misunderstood studies are correct? :roll:

This is pointless, ignore mode on. Outta here.

AeroObsessive
Posts: 160
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:42 am

by AeroObsessive

Lewn777 wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:58 pm
AeroObsessive wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:35 pm
Oh, the irony of you referencing D-K effect 😂

In relation to cycling training, that *is* my wheelhouse. And hence the advice above I am comfortable with, and as always, it depends.
Training is your wheelhouse? I fear for your clients.
People with professorships and doctorates from reputable Universities are quacks, but your cherry picked and misunderstood studies are correct? :roll:

This is pointless, ignore mode on. Outta here.
And that ladies and gentlemen is the Dunning-Kruger in effect.

tjvirden
Posts: 477
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:21 pm

by tjvirden

PoorCyclist wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:07 pm
I wanted to lose a couple more KGs to properly fit more of my jerseys and climb faster. This would also open up the number of bikes I could use (spoke count etc).
I experienced some health issues caused by the extra weight and need to lose for health reasons.

I don't have a particular body composition in mind. I think if I keep riding I will go back into the body shape I was happy with. I did notice I got a lot more core workout riding off road due to carrying a backpack and need to work the arms much more to pull the handlebars up. Maybe gained some muscles here and there on my upper body and quads.

My previous training is 26-40 road miles occasional 60-100 miles excursions, climbing 3-6k of elevation, but is impractical to be out for that long right now.
OP, road (pavement) riding is definitely an efficient way to burn calories in a set time - it's usually easier (more practical) to sustain a fairly steady power output and that steady effort is sustainable from the point of view of riding day after day. Mixing exercise types is great for all-round health and fitness; just avoid always being tired/aching; you'll struggle to keep burning those calories in the medium term if you don't rest and recover adequately.

I'll also agree that if you don't have a power meter, then if $ are not an issue it's worth thinking about one. Quantifying the work you've done, and making it easy to produce a consistent effort is useful and a nice-to-have, but not a necessity. No need to get a top-end one.

Think carefully about your target weight and don't rush to get there. As you know, weight loss is as "simple" as burning a little more than you eat, on average. Discipline!

by Weenie


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