Massage Gun

A light bike doesn't replace good fitness.

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nismosr
Posts: 1384
Joined: Mon May 05, 2008 5:15 pm

by nismosr

anyone using a massage gun after a good hard riding, your thoughts and tips which head to use ?

thank you
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by Weenie


sib
Posts: 267
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:03 am

by sib

Also interested in this..!

bobinski
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:06 pm

by bobinski

I use a cheap version off Amazon. I much prefer using it compared to a roller. It seems to work after a hard ride on my sore 58y old legs. I give legs a general massage post ride and concentrate, after a ZWIFT race, on any particular muscle tightness. This is especially so after a climbing effort. Muscle recovery seems quicker.

iheartbianchi
Posts: 439
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:17 am

by iheartbianchi

There are very few benefits to massage after a workout. There are a lot of dubious claims about the ability of "deep tissue" massage to "flush lactic acid" or somehow improve muscle function, probably promoted by the massage industry.

We really need to understand what makes us "fatigued" after a hard workout. Lactic acid accumulation is one element, but DOMS is the big thing. Delayed onset muscle soreness is essentially your body's response to microtears in your muscles, which "overloads" the affected areas with blood to repair your damaged muscle fibers and results in inflammation. The soreness you feel is from your tears. The sluggish feelings is because your muscles are inflammed with blood doing its repair. If there are any benefits to massage, it is mostly psychological, and can make you "feel" more refreshed. But there's no way that massage can accelerate your body's repair of the microtears that occur in your legs from exercise, flush lactic acid, etc.

Connective tissue such as ligaments and tendons, which suffer from lack of blood flow, may benefit from massage. But that's not what we are talking about in the ordinary workout. That's more related to overuse injury.

So if you're looking to "recover" faster, good diet and rest is the only way. There are some benefits to ice baths, or sauna (as is used by Scandinavian endurance athletes) in reducing the inflammation (not that you want to go overboard as that's a natural response).

To give you an example of how a certain former WR holding Ethiopian marathoner "recovers", the routine typically goes like:

1) Run in the morning
2) Lay on sofa and not move an inch for 2 hours
3) Run before lunch
4) Lay on sofa for 2 hours and get yelled at by wife for not moving an inch from the sofa
5) Run mid-afternoon
6) Lay on sofa for 2 hours and get yelled at some more for not moving an inch from the sofa
7) Interval workout evening
8) Sleep

Somewhat comical, but just an illustrative example that rest is critical.

TLDR:

1) If your muscles are tense, tight or whatever due to a sedentary lifestyle, stress or what have you, then you should stretch (after warming up first).
2) If for some reason you can't stretch, then massage may help (make the masseuse money), at least psychologically
3) If you are suffering from fatigue/DOMS after a workout, massage won't help you at all
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iheartbianchi
Posts: 439
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by iheartbianchi

Also, if you do a search on the benefits of massage after a workout, you will notice a lot of search results rom massage associations or coaches selling "recovery". Buried under all this promotional crap is study after study showing zero benefits to massage for sports recovery, or the studies showing massage can actually hurt your performance (just like too much stretching or yoga can hurt your performance).
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Celeste Matte
Campy SR 11spd mechanical
Bora Ultra 50 tubs
Viseon 5D / stock bits and parts

Bianchi Specialissima Pantani Edition
Campy R 12spd mechanical
Fulcrum Racing Speed 35 tubs
FSA / Deda bits and parts

Andrew69
Posts: 338
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:52 am
Location: ɹǝpunuʍop

by Andrew69

I have a massage once per month as I work a very physical construction job and find it helps to keep everything working as it should as I tend to do a lot of pushing (but not much pulling) and tend to get tight in areas I find hard to stretch adequately on my own
Does it help on the bike?
Probably not, but it doesnt seem to hurt my performance either, but N=1 is hardly scientific validation one way or the other.

Was does seem to help is sitting in the pool up to my waist after a hard ride. Used to do ice baths and they did wonders (for DOMs), but there is evidence that it also reduces the response to training so defintely a double edged sword

iheartbianchi
Posts: 439
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:17 am

by iheartbianchi

Andrew69 wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 8:00 am
I have a massage once per month as I work a very physical construction job and find it helps to keep everything working as it should as I tend to do a lot of pushing (but not much pulling) and tend to get tight in areas I find hard to stretch adequately on my own
Does it help on the bike?
Probably not, but it doesnt seem to hurt my performance either, but N=1 is hardly scientific validation one way or the other.

Was does seem to help is sitting in the pool up to my waist after a hard ride. Used to do ice baths and they did wonders (for DOMs), but there is evidence that it also reduces the response to training so defintely a double edged sword
Ice baths are intended to "limit" the swelling, which, as you pointed out is a double-edged sword. You kind of need the swelling to recover, but at the same time your body tends to overdo it, and then you're left with a lot of excess waste products and saturation that lingers even though you are otherwise "more or less" good to go. Ice, and compression, tries to reduce this response but you have to really be careful with the timing. I see some people wearing compression socks all day long and it's like "no take them off!"

By the way, have you ever wondered why everything new that's come out in the past 20-30 years or so, that is supposedly good for you, always costs money? I know that's a bit of an exaggeration, but it's really interesting to think about. Then how are there so many countries, which are dirt poor with compartively poor infrastructure, have citizens who are consistently healthier, living longer, lower rates of a wide range of disease, and outperforming us in athletic endeavors?

For a very long time, a lot of real people actually used to believe that snake oil, or radium drinks, were healthy and good for you. Every generation has their snake oil, and we can only look backwards in time and make declarations about how crazy it was and how could anyone be so naive. But each generation has consistently failed to recognize the snake oils of their generation, and ours is no different. If someone is trying to charge you money for something to "improve" or "help you," I tend to be suspicious.
Bianchi Oltre XR4
Celeste Matte
Campy SR 11spd mechanical
Bora Ultra 50 tubs
Viseon 5D / stock bits and parts

Bianchi Specialissima Pantani Edition
Campy R 12spd mechanical
Fulcrum Racing Speed 35 tubs
FSA / Deda bits and parts

DirtiousDirte
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2020 3:18 pm

by DirtiousDirte

iheartbianchi wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 4:22 pm
Andrew69 wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 8:00 am
I have a massage once per month as I work a very physical construction job and find it helps to keep everything working as it should as I tend to do a lot of pushing (but not much pulling) and tend to get tight in areas I find hard to stretch adequately on my own
Does it help on the bike?
Probably not, but it doesnt seem to hurt my performance either, but N=1 is hardly scientific validation one way or the other.

Was does seem to help is sitting in the pool up to my waist after a hard ride. Used to do ice baths and they did wonders (for DOMs), but there is evidence that it also reduces the response to training so defintely a double edged sword
Ice baths are intended to "limit" the swelling, which, as you pointed out is a double-edged sword. You kind of need the swelling to recover, but at the same time your body tends to overdo it, and then you're left with a lot of excess waste products and saturation that lingers even though you are otherwise "more or less" good to go. Ice, and compression, tries to reduce this response but you have to really be careful with the timing. I see some people wearing compression socks all day long and it's like "no take them off!"

By the way, have you ever wondered why everything new that's come out in the past 20-30 years or so, that is supposedly good for you, always costs money? I know that's a bit of an exaggeration, but it's really interesting to think about. Then how are there so many countries, which are dirt poor with compartively poor infrastructure, have citizens who are consistently healthier, living longer, lower rates of a wide range of disease, and outperforming us in athletic endeavors?

For a very long time, a lot of real people actually used to believe that snake oil, or radium drinks, were healthy and good for you. Every generation has their snake oil, and we can only look backwards in time and make declarations about how crazy it was and how could anyone be so naive. But each generation has consistently failed to recognize the snake oils of their generation, and ours is no different. If someone is trying to charge you money for something to "improve" or "help you," I tend to be suspicious.
I think it is because people have no problem justifying expensive purchases if it is for "health" reasons. I work next to a woman who runs a marathon once a year. Her training is totally erratic. However, she purchases the newest type of nutrition, whatever new shoe, whatever new recovery device, etc because it is for her "long term health" as she puts it. The industry must love customers like her who unthinkingly purchase whatever aid they can rather than just train consistently.

Andrew69
Posts: 338
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:52 am
Location: ɹǝpunuʍop

by Andrew69

DirtiousDirte wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 9:56 pm
The industry must love customers like her who unthinkingly purchase whatever aid they can rather than just train consistently.
Most people are looking for a short cut to reach their goal
They all want it NOW and they often think of people that are willing to put the work in as obsessed when in reality, all they are is consistent

by Weenie


barbaar
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:40 am
Location: NL

by barbaar

Yes, have one and use it about once a week.

I agree that there is limited scientific evidence that a massage actually helps. But on the other hand:
- it feels good
- it's quality time you spend with your much tortured legs (without actually hurting them too much :)) I strongly believe training is much more than just doing your daily rides.

As they say: if it doesn't kills you, it makes you stronger.

I bought a cheap one from Ali btw. I would be hesitant to spend 300+ Euro on such a device.

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