Garmin Edge App - Ultimate Cycling Data Field

A light bike doesn't replace good fitness.

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jencvo
Posts: 235
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:01 pm

by jencvo

Used it today, I really enjoyed the features but I have 2 questions. 1) is it expected to drain battery a lot more? I saw a note and I also burned a significant percentage in a 3 hr ride. 2) Is average speed based off elapsed time instead of moving time or did I just forget to set up autopause? My overall speed on the Garmin was 16.4mph and 18.5 on Strava, also 20 minute time difference, with elapsed time matching what garmin said moving time was?

Cheers for the feedback on this, awesome app otherwise, I'll keep testing it!

by Weenie


javier87gav
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:25 pm

by javier87gav

jencvo wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:20 am
Used it today, I really enjoyed the features but I have 2 questions. 1) is it expected to drain battery a lot more? I saw a note and I also burned a significant percentage in a 3 hr ride. 2) Is average speed based off elapsed time instead of moving time or did I just forget to set up autopause? My overall speed on the Garmin was 16.4mph and 18.5 on Strava, also 20 minute time difference, with elapsed time matching what garmin said moving time was?

Cheers for the feedback on this, awesome app otherwise, I'll keep testing it!
Thanks for your feedback. You should expect a slight increment in the battery comsuption but not to much. Take into account that this data field is calculating and printing more information than the default Garmin fields. Today I rode for 2 hours and the battery consumption in my Garmin Edge 520 was 13%, it's important to note that the background light is set in my Garmin to be on the whole ride (at the minimum intensity, 10%), and I also using another 2 custom data fields so I think the battery performance is really good.

All the metrics in my Garmin when I finished the ride are matching with Strava and Garmin connect ones. Take a look to your autopause configuration.

Image

jencvo
Posts: 235
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:01 pm

by jencvo

javier87gav wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:27 pm
jencvo wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:20 am
Used it today, I really enjoyed the features but I have 2 questions. 1) is it expected to drain battery a lot more? I saw a note and I also burned a significant percentage in a 3 hr ride. 2) Is average speed based off elapsed time instead of moving time or did I just forget to set up autopause? My overall speed on the Garmin was 16.4mph and 18.5 on Strava, also 20 minute time difference, with elapsed time matching what garmin said moving time was?

Cheers for the feedback on this, awesome app otherwise, I'll keep testing it!
Thanks for your feedback. You should expect a slight increment in the battery comsuption but not to much. Take into account that this data field is calculating and printing more information than the default Garmin fields. Today I rode for 2 hours and the battery consumption in my Garmin Edge 520 was 13%, it's important to note that the background light is set in my Garmin to be on the whole ride (at the minimum intensity, 10%), and I also using another 2 custom data fields so I think the battery performance is really good.

All the metrics in my Garmin when I finished the ride are matching with Strava and Garmin connect ones. Take a look to your autopause configuration.

Image
Awesome thanks! I'll check out settings more in depth and will see how it goes next time. Loved having all the fields in one spot. There's a few I wouldn't normally use during the ride, similar to what Tobin said (TSS for example), but 95% of it is everything I want so that's perfect!

javier87gav
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:25 pm

by javier87gav

Uploaded version 2.6

From now on you can decide if you want to show the TSS or the W' Balance. You have to set your W' value also if you use W' Bal. I used the free software Golden Cheetah to calculate my W' (Tools -> CP and W' Estimator).

I hope you like this new metric.

PD: Hope TSS haters enjoy it also haha

maxim809
Moderator
Posts: 320
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:28 am

by maxim809

Hi Javier. I gave the latest a try. I liked the background color changing and depleting with the percentage of W'.

How do you set total W'? I hunted around, but I had trouble discovering where to do this.

If I don't set W', what is the default value set to? The % was depleting as I put in harder efforts, as expected. However, after a long sustained effort, I was able to push down into -20% and normally I expect to go no lower than negative single digits at most for the hardest of efforts. I'm thinking this is due to two things:

1. My W' isn't accurate since I couldn't find how to set it.
2. I noticed the replenishment of W' seems to get stuck at stoplights. Example, if I stop at a light @ 83% W' for 2 minutes, theoretically I should be "fresher". Then, if I sprint once the light turns green I'll start depleting from 83%.

1 could be solved with user education (me), but 2 might be tricky to tune since a stop-light replenishment algorithm would have to make assumptions about a rider's fitness and recovery while taking into account time stopped. That, or you could do something simple and presumptuous like replenishing at some linear rate over time until it hits 100%.

Overall, it was fun to play around with and thanks for taking a stab at it. :)
2013 Cannondale Synapse | 2015 LaPierre Pulsium | 2016 Pinarello Dogma F8 | 2016 Bianchi XR4 | 2019 Spesh Sprint

jlok
Posts: 1424
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

@maxim809
Maybe the W' value is too low for you (or the FTP is too low). You may set your W' value in the Garmin Connect smart phone app and the settings should be sync to your Edge.

Garmin Connect > Garmin Devices > Edge xxx > Activities, Apps & More > Data Fields > Ultimate Cycling Data Field > Settings

Also, do you use auto-pause so that the calculation of W' replenishment also stop at the stop-light?
Rikulau V9 DB Custom < BMC TM02 < Litespeed T1sl Disc < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

javier87gav
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:25 pm

by javier87gav

maxim809 wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:18 am
Hi Javier. I gave the latest a try. I liked the background color changing and depleting with the percentage of W'.

How do you set total W'? I hunted around, but I had trouble discovering where to do this.

If I don't set W', what is the default value set to? The % was depleting as I put in harder efforts, as expected. However, after a long sustained effort, I was able to push down into -20% and normally I expect to go no lower than negative single digits at most for the hardest of efforts. I'm thinking this is due to two things:

1. My W' isn't accurate since I couldn't find how to set it.
2. I noticed the replenishment of W' seems to get stuck at stoplights. Example, if I stop at a light @ 83% W' for 2 minutes, theoretically I should be "fresher". Then, if I sprint once the light turns green I'll start depleting from 83%.

1 could be solved with user education (me), but 2 might be tricky to tune since a stop-light replenishment algorithm would have to make assumptions about a rider's fitness and recovery while taking into account time stopped. That, or you could do something simple and presumptuous like replenishing at some linear rate over time until it hits 100%.

Overall, it was fun to play around with and thanks for taking a stab at it. :)
Hey maxim, thanks for your feedback.

I obtained my W' using the free software Golden Cheetah. In Tools --> CP and W' Estimator
You can also download this excel file: https://em-sportscience.com/critical-power-calculator

Image

For W' calculation you're usually asked for a short effort and a long effort, for example, 3-5 minutes and 20-60 minutes. Since the excel file is asking for 4 efforts I just duplicated my 3 minutes and 20 minutes efforts and the W' value returned was almost the same as in Golden Cheetah. You can also put 4 efforts, it will be more accurate.

Even assuming your W' and FTP values are perfectly calculated, which is really difficult, you could see negative W' Bal values. Take into account that the W' Balance is just a theory is not an exact science, it's really difficult to create a formula that applies to all the athletes, every human body is a different world. However it's a really good indicator, the estimation it performs is really good and helpful. If it's common for you to see -5% during your rides just adjust your W' value setting a larger value.

About the second point. When the timer is stopped the app stops calculating W' Bal but I think you're correct I should remove that condition. Today I'll upload a new version fixing that.

Regards.

javier87gav
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:25 pm

by javier87gav

@maxim809 I have uploaded a new version, 2.8, fixing that. Thanks for your help.

maxim809
Moderator
Posts: 320
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:28 am

by maxim809

Thanks for the explanation Javier. Is it possible to input my own W', or, does your app automatically calculate it with the GC formula, using pre-existing power curve data as stored on my Garmin?

Thanks for the fix I'll take a look. :)
2013 Cannondale Synapse | 2015 LaPierre Pulsium | 2016 Pinarello Dogma F8 | 2016 Bianchi XR4 | 2019 Spesh Sprint

javier87gav
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:25 pm

by javier87gav

maxim809 wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:36 pm
Thanks for the explanation Javier. Is it possible to input my own W', or, does your app automatically calculate it with the GC formula, using pre-existing power curve data as stored on my Garmin?

Thanks for the fix I'll take a look. :)
Actually you should input your own W' and your own FTP. Do you know how to input them? You can do it with your mobile phone, using the garmin connect app. I posted a video, it's in the first page.

If you don't have Golden Cheetah you can calculate your W' with the excel file provided in this link https://em-sportscience.com/critical-power-calculator

AndreLM
Posts: 430
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:53 pm

by AndreLM

A note about inputing W'. You should be able to do it with Garmin Express on your computer, however after upgrading from 2.3 to 2.7, the options screen did not show the new options. I had to remove and re-install the app.

Great app! Some fields get really small in the 520 screen. I normally keep an eye on Time of Day and it is tiny... But hey... It is the price to pay for having so many fields on a single screen.

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maxim809
Moderator
Posts: 320
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:28 am

by maxim809

Ah, found the menu hidden in the Garmin Express app. Cool. I see it was defaulted to 20kJ. I've updated to reflect accordingly.

Also, thanks for the extra info. I'm familiar with GC but it's a good refresher. Somehow, I feel that it's going to be much harder to deplete W' now with everything updated. We shall see. ;P
2013 Cannondale Synapse | 2015 LaPierre Pulsium | 2016 Pinarello Dogma F8 | 2016 Bianchi XR4 | 2019 Spesh Sprint

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