An hour at zone 3, is it useful?

A light bike doesn't replace good fitness.

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iheartbianchi
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by iheartbianchi

robeambro wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:58 pm

Out of curiosity, from what you say it seems swimming would be better than stairs/squats/lunges/etc if no cycling/spinning/running is available. Is this the case, and if yes why? Not sure there'd be much legwork involved, but I guess will have other beneficial effects.

And, on another subject, you mentioned that pro's don't usually show their HR on Strava. Which is generally true, but I've found that former cycling pro and current Ironman world-class athlete (and easily best biker) Cameron Wurf publishes it. Of course we don't know whether he publishes every little session. Would be good if you could use his workouts to show us some real life examples of how he trains and whether it fits with your theory. If you want, that is! I know you have better things to do :mrgreen:
I don't actually think it's better to swim than doing stairs/squats/lunges at a sufficient level to provide an adequate aerobic stimulus. The latter are more specific to cycling (using similar muscle groups). There are a few problems: 1) you may not be doing enough of them, or hard enough, to adequately provide aerobic benefit and 2) you may be overworking the same group of muscles, if your intent is to cross-train to "recover" from a rough cycling season. Squats/lunges should compliment your regular cycling training, but obviously swimming when viewed alone is a much better full-body exercise.

When I look at a rider on Strava that publishe their HR data, it's very simple to figure out their fitness level. You see what their HR is on a particular climb or segment, and compare over time or a particular reference point. By also looking at their time, speed or power for that same climb/segment, you can guess with reasonable accuracy what kind of shape they were at that time and whether they are improving or declining.

Regarding Cameron Wurf, I am not familiar with him, but a few observations (I looked at maybe 20 of his efforts):
-His cycling rides tend to have average HR of around 110-120bpm, but on certain rides peak at 170+ bpm. I haven't seen any dedicated interval sessions or "sweet spot" rides. This seems to be a very casual form of polarized training (hard efforts within an otherwise easy ride), which is probably more of a function of his multi-sport discipline (i.e., he can't afford to burn his legs and hurt his running and intervals are a bit pointless when you're doing an ultra endurance event).
-He is a decent, but not excellent runner. His running volume is fairly low and his pace is a bit slow, despite the fact that his average heart rate on his runs is around 140-150bpm. This may be a result of the fact that he is not running much and he is a multi-sport athlete that doesn't have the training time necessary to develop a high degree of efficiency in running, although I think this is a really low mileage for Ironman events where you have to run 42km. Although he does not appear to be doing any specific interval training, he does seem to incorporate what I would describe as "cruise intervals" (threshold work) within his runs, which makes sense given the long distance nature of certain Ironman competitions. Similar training philosophy to his cycling, but I would not categorize his running as polarized given that his runs seem to be done all a bit too hard and his "faster" segments aren't actually that fast.

Again, I only skimmed his March - May workouts, and I noticed a lack of specific interval or tempo training. Most of his cycling work is long slow distance, with some hard efforts built in (so a solid polarized model) and while he tries to do the same polarized approach for running, I think his base speed is just a bit too hard and there's literally no speed.

Of course there is the possibility that he may be using cycling as the long slow distance component of his training, running for his "steady state" or "sweet spot" component and swimming for maybe a mix of all the above. I'm not sure that works, given the specificity of each type of activity, but I'm not an expert in triathlons.
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robeambro
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by robeambro

iheartbianchi wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:35 pm
robeambro wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:58 pm

Out of curiosity, from what you say it seems swimming would be better than stairs/squats/lunges/etc if no cycling/spinning/running is available. Is this the case, and if yes why? Not sure there'd be much legwork involved, but I guess will have other beneficial effects.

And, on another subject, you mentioned that pro's don't usually show their HR on Strava. Which is generally true, but I've found that former cycling pro and current Ironman world-class athlete (and easily best biker) Cameron Wurf publishes it. Of course we don't know whether he publishes every little session. Would be good if you could use his workouts to show us some real life examples of how he trains and whether it fits with your theory. If you want, that is! I know you have better things to do :mrgreen:
I don't actually think it's better to swim than doing stairs/squats/lunges at a sufficient level to provide an adequate aerobic stimulus. The latter are more specific to cycling (using similar muscle groups). There are a few problems: 1) you may not be doing enough of them, or hard enough, to adequately provide aerobic benefit and 2) you may be overworking the same group of muscles, if your intent is to cross-train to "recover" from a rough cycling season. Squats/lunges should compliment your regular cycling training, but obviously swimming when viewed alone is a much better full-body exercise.

When I look at a rider on Strava that publishe their HR data, it's very simple to figure out their fitness level. You see what their HR is on a particular climb or segment, and compare over time or a particular reference point. By also looking at their time, speed or power for that same climb/segment, you can guess with reasonable accuracy what kind of shape they were at that time and whether they are improving or declining.

Regarding Cameron Wurf, I am not familiar with him, but a few observations (I looked at maybe 20 of his efforts):
-His cycling rides tend to have average HR of around 110-120bpm, but on certain rides peak at 170+ bpm. I haven't seen any dedicated interval sessions or "sweet spot" rides. This seems to be a very casual form of polarized training (hard efforts within an otherwise easy ride), which is probably more of a function of his multi-sport discipline (i.e., he can't afford to burn his legs and hurt his running and intervals are a bit pointless when you're doing an ultra endurance event).
-He is a decent, but not excellent runner. His running volume is fairly low and his pace is a bit slow, despite the fact that his average heart rate on his runs is around 140-150bpm. This may be a result of the fact that he is not running much and he is a multi-sport athlete that doesn't have the training time necessary to develop a high degree of efficiency in running, although I think this is a really low mileage for Ironman events where you have to run 42km. Although he does not appear to be doing any specific interval training, he does seem to incorporate what I would describe as "cruise intervals" (threshold work) within his runs, which makes sense given the long distance nature of certain Ironman competitions. Similar training philosophy to his cycling, but I would not categorize his running as polarized given that his runs seem to be done all a bit too hard and his "faster" segments aren't actually that fast.

Again, I only skimmed his March - May workouts, and I noticed a lack of specific interval or tempo training. Most of his cycling work is long slow distance, with some hard efforts built in (so a solid polarized model) and while he tries to do the same polarized approach for running, I think his base speed is just a bit too hard and there's literally no speed.

Of course there is the possibility that he may be using cycling as the long slow distance component of his training, running for his "steady state" or "sweet spot" component and swimming for maybe a mix of all the above. I'm not sure that works, given the specificity of each type of activity, but I'm not an expert in triathlons.
Thanks! That's some thorough analysis.

Re: Wurf, as I follow (very little though) the sport, I can tell you that he is pretty much the fastest biker (holds the course record at the World Championships), but has been trying to improve his run, which is where he faded most times last year. This may explain why he's "trying hard" on the running with higher intensity (good or bad a choice it may be).

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