Neck pain - no matter the position

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jfranci3
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Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:21 pm

by jfranci3

Miles - are you still working on your neck pain? 5 pages and I hadn't seen anyone ask about bar width. I had a lot of pain when I moved from 44cm to 42cm bars. It took a while for my trap muscles to adapt. The narrower bars extend the upper back muscles more. Maybe try doing your shorter rides with your hands spreadout more

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TheKaptone
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by TheKaptone

Just wanted to know what's the thoughts were on how long you should try each adjustment before deciding that it is not right. Does it come down to getting it right and everything feels great it does it takes days weeks months. There have been many suggestions on here as to what changes to try but I wanted to know how long to try each one

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Miles253
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by Miles253

jfranci3 wrote:Miles - are you still working on your neck pain? 5 pages and I hadn't seen anyone ask about bar width. I had a lot of pain when I moved from 44cm to 42cm bars. It took a while for my trap muscles to adapt. The narrower bars extend the upper back muscles more. Maybe try doing your shorter rides with your hands spreadout more
I still am yes, I run a 42cm bar and always have, fit my shoulders well.

Due to the pain mostly being at the spine, rather than across the shoulders, I would imagine that bars are the one thing I can rule out.

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diegogarcia
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by diegogarcia

Have already messaged about this, but try an SMP saddle if you can.

I spent years on a Romin ( first Romin bought in 2011) and migrated to power in 2015/16 when they came out and then back to a Romin as I felt the first power saddle not great though the arc version may be better.

I went to see a local fitter about my neck and trap ache as I was finding it hard going in constant cycling neck ache. Have ridden solid miles since 2007 without a break and had a few frames come and go citing them as they cause of the neck issue. I currently ride a Trek Emonda SLR which is great.

We looked at my position and my reach was good on a 38.5cm reach bike, but he suggested that the Romin was not working for me at all and causing my pelvis to be lazy - what ever that means. So, I tried an SMP pro on the turbo and immediately felt the load on my shoulders go further down my spine and effectively stop pushing my traps into my neck. I did two 65 mile rides last week Tuesday and Thursday with 8000 feet of climbing over the two rides and my neck pain is effectively gone. There is a legacy of mild ache which a good physio will work out with massage but I am now as massive advocate of SMP saddles. A lot of reviews talk about saddles with regards to bum and balls etc but incredible what it does to the posterior chain further up the trunk as well as stabilising the rider when climbing and giving it the beans full gas.

I am demoing the SMP Drakon this week as a little racier than the pro, but still has the same sweet spot that the rider sits in.

Granted they look different, but they work and that is all that matters.

Diego.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

More SMP info.

SMP basically has two major shapes in the line-up: the Forma and Composit.

The Forma shape is a bit more cradled and also has a narrower nose. The Composit shape is flatter and with a more dramatic curve at the very back and a wider nose. I personally prefer the Composit shape because I can scoot back a few mm when climbing or sitting up or scoot forward when I’m putting in a hard effort.

The Dynamic is a Forma with some padding. The Drakon has even more padding.

The Blaster is a Composit with some padding. The Vulkor is a wider Composit. The Nymber adds padding to the Vulkor shell.

There is also an older shell design used by the Evolution, Stratos and Glider...I don’t recommend those. Selle SMP also introduced a more conventional family of saddles called the F30/F30C.

I switched from a Glider to a Blaster and love it. I have three gripes about these saddles...

1) The black versions use a very thin real leather. It wears out very quickly on the nose/beak. The other colors use a microtex that is way more durable.
2) Price...
3) Weight. One of my carbon railed Blasters weighs 227g and the other weighs 218g.
Last edited by TobinHatesYou on Tue May 14, 2019 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

diegogarcia
Posts: 557
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by diegogarcia

Thanks worth a read.

Also, are some SMP saddles, Blaster case in point for a narrower hipped rider as 131 seems very narrow. Would love to try one, but do not think my fitter has one in the demo bundle and as you say a lot of dosh to throw at the wrong saddle.

55 miles on the Drakon today. Brilliant.

What are the views on the Lite 209 ?

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

I believe the Lite 209 uses the Forma shell, but with even thicker foam than the Drakon. Not entirely sure...

SMP saddles are pretty narrow because they encourage hip rotation. When your hip rotates forward, you end up sitting on a narrower part of your pelvis called the pubic rami instead of the ischial tuberosities. I generally use ~140mm saddles, but I am also completely fine on a Blaster.

diegogarcia
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by diegogarcia

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 6:08 pm
I believe the Lite 209 uses the Forma shell, but with even thicker foam than the Drakon. Not entirely sure...

SMP saddles are pretty narrow because they encourage hip rotation. When your hip rotates forward, you end up sitting on a narrower part of your pelvis called the pubic rami instead of the ischial tuberosities. I generally use ~140mm saddles, but I am also completely fine on a Blaster.
I hear that - during my fit the feeling off being able to get into the hoods easily, not 'reaching' for them was very apparent when we put an SMP on the bike from a Spesh saddle - which is solely based on hip rotation I think. Hence recommending them to the OP; Miles. Certainly feel the lower back, hams and glutes working too which is nice.

bikeboy1tr
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Location: Southern Ontario Canada

by bikeboy1tr

I find I can get into the drops more comfortably with the Full Carbon and the Composit SMP and I have been measuring the tilt of the saddle right in the middle where the flat portion exist and I have the Carbon at -2.5 degrees for the moment. I rode it today and it felt pretty good in all positions on the bars.
The other great thing is you sit further back in the saddle which leaves lots of seat rail adjustment fore and aft. I could now go to a zero offset seatpost which I could never do before with traditional saddles.
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bikeboy1tr
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by bikeboy1tr

I meant to post this link for info on SMP
https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bi ... bout-smps/
"Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving"-Albert Einstein
2018 Colnago V2R Rim Brake
2014 Norco Threshold Disc Brake
2012 Time RXRS Ulteam Rim Brake
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2006 Ridley Crosswind Rim Brake

zefs
Posts: 438
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by zefs

The Power saddle already allows pelvic rotation so not sure how an SMP would improve that. Personally I've noticed as time passes while on the bike and trying to be aero/doing intervals there is a point were I am slipping forward and I try to sit further back on the saddle. This could be related to core strength, so as you fatigue it's harder for the body to stabilize while on aero position and to me not having a stable saddle position is what causes neck pain. This happens when doing mountain descends as well, at the bottom I feel fatigue on the neck area since weight is being distributed forward because of the downhill. Add road conditions/bumps that fatigue you as well and there you have it.

To give an example:
Fatigue over time -> slipping forward on the saddle -> back flexes to avoid saddle pressure/no pelvic stability -> upper body tensions = neck pain

Same thing applies to having a big saddle drop as you end up sitting forward on the saddle all the time (because of weight distribution).
Also having a more comfortable front end could lead to being faster as you would be able to sustain it longer compared to a too aero position since flexibility on the whole body plays a role.

Miles253
Posts: 191
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by Miles253

Speaking to a number of bike fitters, the snubbed nose of the saddle is going to have the same effect across saddles, pelvic rotation.

Therefore my problem is unlikely to be solved by another snub nosed saddle. I'm better off therefore working on flexibility and refining my position with less drop/ reach.

Hips, hams, glutes, back, neck and core all to be worked on. All the boring stuff!

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853guy
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by 853guy

Miles253 wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 9:44 am
Speaking to a number of bike fitters, the snubbed nose of the saddle is going to have the same effect across saddles, pelvic rotation.

Therefore my problem is unlikely to be solved by another snub nosed saddle. I'm better off therefore working on flexibility and refining my position with less drop/ reach.

Hips, hams, glutes, back, neck and core all to be worked on. All the boring stuff!

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Hi Miles,

I hate to post the same thing twice, but those are exactly the muscles targeted by the deadlift, when performed with a neutral spine and hip hinge.

There's lots of research out there, so if you've not already, I would encourage you to take a look at the potential benefits conferred by this single compound exercise.

Best,

853guy

dim
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by dim

raise the handlebars by 2 inches (thats the only solution that I see based on the photos .... by raising the handlebars, your head (and helmet) is in a higher position, resulting in less strain on the neck .... and your eyeballs wont be as high as your eyebrows when you ride (reduces eye strain on long distances ) :D

if the handlebars cannot be raised, get a new uncut fork, then have a proper bike fit .... I still say that based on the photos, the bike frame size is too small for the OP
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Miles253
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by Miles253

dim wrote:raise the handlebars by 2 inches (thats the only solution that I see based on the photos .... by raising the handlebars, your head (and helmet) is in a higher position, resulting in less strain on the neck .... and your eyeballs wont be as high as your eyebrows when you ride (reduces eye strain on long distances ) :D

if the handlebars cannot be raised, get a new uncut fork, then have a proper bike fit .... I still say that based on the photos, the bike frame size is too small for the OP
As an XL frame and 6 foot 3 I'm well within the prescribed limits. I have perhaps lowered my position too much, but that won't be solved by this frame.

Previous bike fits suggested this size frame and smaller, so I'm not sure i really trust bike fitters to be able to get it spot on. I've also ridden a much bigger frame and still had neck issues...

Thanks

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